Religion

[Optimist Prime 197]

If you're going to base your evidence or likely hood of something being right on something such as "Why else would a human do all that?", then how am I supposed to look at similar people like Nat Turner and Adolf Hitler?

 

Humans are crazy. We'll do anything if we're seriously convinced we're right.

 

that was only one part of the whole, though. i would never give their dedication as the reason we should believe the gospels to be accurate. i gave a previous post in this thread with some more historical info. yeah, the apostles were convinced that Jesus rose again after his death. but, their reason is because they saw him. they also ran and hid when he died. what would cause such a drastic change in demeanor? also, you should watch the video i posted and go to his website if you are interested in his argument. he as a q and a archive there that you can read, but if you want to look at his articles, youll have to register an account. its free but there are monthly emails (i dont know if you can disable them).

 

www.reasonablefaith.org

 

Cancers don't miraculously disappear. Depending on what type of cancer it is and at what stage, sometimes your immune system is strong enough to take care of it.

 

Stress plays a large role in the fight with cancer. Often someone gets diagnosed with terminal cancer and dies two or three weeks later because they worry to death.

 

Diet also matters.

 

My Dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer in june of '09. The doctors gave him 5-6 months to live. My mom did a bunch of research and got him on a very strict supplemental diet coupled with a few holistic medical supplements as well as the usual chemo/radiation.

 

That's kept him alive up until now. Last week they found out the cancer came back aggressively and its back to the 6 months to live.

 

Going about your life normally and dealing with stress in a healthy way is just as important as getting medical attention.

 

Really off-topic but its important.

 

there definitely are cases where cancers go away or where terminally ill patients turn around. the lieutenant governor of florida had his a severe fungal infection go away. i have a friend whos mother had cancer two years ago and it went away. but it could very well be a case similar to your fathers.

 

i think youre right though, your mindset and lifestyle has a lot to do with it. my mom died just before i turned five to cancer. im really glad that your dad was able to fight it, and hopefully he can do it again. i know its tough.

[GhostAnime 50]

another faith based website.. meh. How come I can never get something from neutral people? You know, scholars, scientists, archaeologists.. how come it's always some sermon who puts a spin on it?

[Magicman28 295]

Lol. First it's because I don't pray enough.

 

Now it's because I'm not 30-years-old? Give me a break. Prove to me that age is significant in deciding my beliefs. I actually drift away from organized religion year after year. I never get closer. I don't know what I'm going to see that will get me closer. A 'miracle' isn't going to work. A sermon isn't going to work. If you are going to discredit anything I say simply because I'm 10 years younger, then you are simply being ageist.

 

As for the Jesus thing, is there any real evidence of it outside of the Bible?

 

I've already discussed Evolution a great deal months ago with a couple of you. "Science isn't always 100% right." Yeah, it isn't, but guess what? It works. It's the reason why we're even debating right now.

 

I'll take the one that works the majority of the time over something that can't even be verified or disprovable.

 

 

I never said its result of not being 30. I never discredit anything you said. Some of yall are just so misunderstood by what I mean't with age. I just said I was at the same age as you pretty much believing the same way you did. Age is very significant. Experience is significant. Its not the ONLY significance but its significant nonetheless. A lot can happen in a year let alone 10-12. Just because I'm older doesn't mean I'm done learning either and you being younger, got plenty of time. Thats all I was trying to say.

 

I didn't believe in signs and miracles either. Like I said, I had a sense, but that was just me but I didn't quite believe in God and Jesus. I wanted real hard facts. The one sign came in my weakest state and it didn't come until I was in my 20's and that one shook me forever. Then it came again in the form of my wife and kids who without I would be dead.

 

Is there any real evidence outside the Bible? Yeah but none I can really show you. Its through my experiences but again, you weren't there and I have no pictures to show. Just me. I know that isn't good enough and I completely understand but please consider the time I took to have this conversation.

 

Science? Its great. It works at times but science never gave me what believing in God gave me or is giving me at this very moment. If thats your choice, thats great. I hope it works out for you.

[Optimist Prime 197]

another faith based website.. meh. How come I can never get something from neutral people? You know, scholars, scientists, archaeologists.. how come it's always some sermon who puts a spin on it?

 

the guy has two PhDs and is not a pastor in any sense, but a professor. he doesnt sermonize, he writes scholarly papers. n.t. wright is another one, used to be the head of new testament studies at cambridge, but is now a bishop in the anglican church. and if youre into science, alvin plantinga has an argument entitled "the evolutionary argument against naturalism"

 

these are all scholars who use science, philosophy and history to argue their points. they dont preach. theyre apologists.

 

do you really want me to find a non christian scholar that argues for the christian side?

[GhostAnime 50]

Your first reply to me did come out as if I'm too young to understand the nature of gods which thus leads many people to think of it as condescending (even if you did not intend for that).

 

But what experiences am I expected to have if I haven't had them at the age of 20 already? Am I going to be saved in the nick of time? Is my mother going to die? What experience is there left for me?

 

the guy has two PhDs and is not a pastor in any sense, but a professor. he doesnt sermonize, he writes scholarly papers. n.t. wright is another one, used to be the head of new testament studies at cambridge, but is now a bishop in the anglican church. and if youre into science, alvin plantinga has an argument entitled "the evolutionary argument against naturalism"

 

these are all scholars who use science, philosophy and history to argue their points. they dont preach. theyre apologists.

 

do you really want me to find a non christian scholar that argues for the christian side?

I know they're at least qualified educationally, but none of it is peer-reviewed (or seems to be).

 

Also, his degrees aren't really anything that would indicate he knew a significant amount of science. Just throwing that out there.

 

But if there's a particular argument you think he mentions that is significant, you can paste it here.

 

I'm reading some of his work and I'm really not impressed.

 

But Russell realized that the inference from apparent lack of evidence for God to atheism is fallacious. That’s why in his famous debate in 1948 with Frederick Copleston he preferred the label “agnostic” instead of “atheist.” Yet today, many call themselves “atheists” when really they are agnostics.

 

I honestly wonder if he's done his research on both word origins and latin meanings?

 

It can be questioned that God satisfies the Evidence Expectation Criterion if you think for a moment about the fleeting nature of evidence. Only in the last 20 years or so have we discovered the incredible and incalculable fine-tuning of our universe for intelligent life

 

Oh brother. The fine tuning of the universe... such as all that wasted space if we really *ARE* the only beings? The fine-tuning of dolphins with mammal limbs and us with wisdom teeth? Perfect creation right thurr.

 

Of course, the guy is smart and all but.. I just simply disagree with him. This site will satisfy Christian believers, but fait based sites just never work for non believers. It truly does sound like apologetics in intelligent language.

[Magicman28 295]

another faith based website.. meh. How come I can never get something from neutral people? You know, scholars, scientists, archaeologists.. how come it's always some sermon who puts a spin on it?

 

 

Look into Issac Newton or Einstein. They were scientists who believed in God.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

the guy has two PhDs and is not a pastor in any sense, but a professor. he doesnt sermonize, he writes scholarly papers. n.t. wright is another one, used to be the head of new testament studies at cambridge, but is now a bishop in the anglican church. and if youre into science, alvin plantinga has an argument entitled "the evolutionary argument against naturalism"

 

these are all scholars who use science, philosophy and history to argue their points. they dont preach. theyre apologists.

 

do you really want me to find a non christian scholar that argues for the christian side?

 

 

I can't access that site, and probably wouldn't want to anyways, but it's important to note that being a professor and having 2 phDs doesn't necessarily mean one is qualified to talk about any given topic, because not all topics are equal and not all PhDs have the same focus.

 

If I wanted to learn about very detailed specifics involving photosynthesis, I'd obviously want to talk to a scientist. But a cosmologist isn't going to be especially helpful, and certainly isn't as qualified to talk about the subject as a botanist would be.

[Magicman28 295]

Your first reply to me did come out as if I'm too young to understand the nature of gods which thus leads many people to think of it as condescending (even if you did not intend for that).

 

But what experiences am I expected to have if I haven't had them at the age of 20 already? Am I going to be saved in the nick of time? Is my mother going to die? What experience is there left for me?

 

 

I really don't see it in my first post but I apologize for the misunderstanding. Again, I just meant that I didn't start believing fully into my mid and later 20's. I was just comparing myself to you. Gotta forgive me. As one gets older, that becomes the thing to do with people who are younger. Its not judging just comparing.

 

Again, I can only speak for myself because I can't predict what experiences you'll have (agree?) but man, at age 20, you got tons and tons of life to live. Tons of things to see. Tons of things to learn. I'm 32 and after getting this far when I thought I wouldn't, I know I got tons more life to experience myself.

 

Its kinda odd to hear a 20 year old to ask "what experiences is there left"? You got plenty and you know what, you are smart for questioning things. A true scholar of the Bible would tell you thats what your suppose to do. I will say that I became very hungry to find out in my 20's. I didn't always get the answer right away but when I did get it, it was huge.

[Optimist Prime 197]

I can't access that site, and probably wouldn't want to anyways, but it's important to note that being a professor and having 2 phDs doesn't necessarily mean one is qualified to talk about any given topic, because not all topics are equal and not all PhDs have the same focus.

 

If I wanted to learn about very detailed specifics involving photosynthesis, I'd obviously want to talk to a scientist. But a cosmologist isn't going to be especially helpful, and certainly isn't as qualified to talk about the subject as a botanist would be.

 

but im not making an argument about photosynthesis. and im not saying that these PhDs mean he is right on every issue.

 

ghostanime said that he cant be trusted because he is religious. im saying that just because he is religious doesnt mean that hes going to use word play to put a spin on the issue so he can sound right. he will approach it in an academic manner.

[GhostAnime 50]

Look into Issac Newton or Einstein. They were scientists who believed in God.

Newton was a Christian, but I don't see how that's significant.

 

Einstein didn't believe in a traditional monotheistic god, so I don't see why that's important either even if he did. They would still have to prove them to me.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

but im not making an argument about photosynthesis. and im not saying that these PhDs mean he is right on every issue.

 

ghostanime said that he cant be trusted because he is religious. im saying that just because he is religious doesnt mean that hes going to use word play to put a spin on the issue so he can sound right. he will approach it in an academic manner.

 

The counterpoint to that, which I think is what Ghostanime was pointing out, is that having a PhD doesn't mean you WON'T filter information through your personal bias. People are prone to continue believing things long after they're proven false, and any person who enters into a discussion with initial biases is likely to see only the answer that confirms what they thought going in.

[Magicman28 295]

Newton was a Christian, but I don't see how that's significant.

 

Einstein didn't believe in a traditional monotheistic god, so I don't see why that's important either even if he did. They would still have to prove them to me.

 

 

You asked for scholars, "scientists", I gave you 2. Einstein believed that the universe was in fact created by a God. I'm not to familiar with every detail but I remembered reading a biography with him stating that.

 

I understand you wanting "proof". I did too. Maybe you'll get it as you continue to search. Just don't quite searching. Praying does help. I'm not saying only do that but try it. Whats the penalty?