Religion

[Osprey 199]

To add to the Koran Burning debate, just a refresher on a past event.

 

 

http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... lives.html

 

After defeating their rivals in Palestinian Authority Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah movement, Muslim extremists are focusing their attacks on Christians in Gaza City. Christians in Gaza City have issued an appeal to the international community and a plea for protection against the increased attacks by Muslim extremists.

 

Muslim gunmen used rocket-propeled grenades (RPGs) to blow through the doors of the church and school, before burning Bibles and destroying every cross they could get their hands on.

 

 

Little bit worse than just burning books.

 

I don't recall Christians in other countries threatening terrorist attacks on Muslim nations because of this incident. Just keeping things in perspective.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

To add to the Koran Burning debate, just a refresher on a past event.

 

 

http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... lives.html

 

 

 

 

Little bit worse than just burning books.

 

I don't recall Christians in other countries threatening terrorist attacks on Muslim nations because of this incident. Just keeping things in perspective.

 

That this is a self-deluding fallacy should have long since been apparent to anyone who's been paying attention. From Eric Rudolph's bombing of the Atlanta Olympics, a gay nightclub and two abortion clinics to the so-called Phineas Priests who bombed banks, a newspaper and a Planned Parenthood Office in Spokane, from Matt Hale soliciting the murder of a federal judge in Chicago to Scott Roeder's assassination of abortion provider Dr. George Tiller, from brothers Matthew and Tyler Williams murdering a gay couple near Redding, Calif., to Timothy McVeigh destroying a federal building and 168 lives in Oklahoma City, we have seen no shortage of "Christians" who believe Jesus requires -- or at least allows -- them to commit murder.

 

If federal officials are correct, we now have one more name to add to the dishonor roll. That name would be Hutaree, a self-styled Christian militia in Michigan, nine members of which have been arrested and accused of plotting to kill police officers in hopes of sparking an anti-government uprising.

 

Many of us would doubtless resist referring to plots like this as Christian terrorism, feeling it unfair to tar the great body of Christendom with the actions of its fringe radicals. And here, we will pause for Muslim readers to clear their throats loudly.

 

While they do, let the rest of us note that there is a larger moral to this story and it has less to do with terminologies than similarities.

 

http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2010/04/christian_terrorism.html

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

and for the sake of equality:

 

Haim Pearlman, a young Jewish father of three, was arrested Tuesday on suspicions that he murdered four Palestinians in the late '90s and tried to kill several others.

 

Police and the Shin Bet, Israel's domestic intelligence service, say they've caught a Jewish terrorist, the "serial stabber" that terrorized Palestinians in a chain of seemingly random attacks around Jerusalem. The stabbings appeared to follow the separate murders of two yeshiva students in those years and were assumed to be ideologically motivated revenge, but no one was ever caught

 

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2010/07/israel-jewish-terror-suspect-arrested-claims-conspiracy.html

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

In the latest in a spate of anti-Muslim incidents over the last two days, an intoxicated man entered a mosque in Queens on Wednesday evening and proceeded to urinate on prayer rugs, New York police officials said.

 

The man, identified as Omar Rivera, reportedly shouted anti-Muslim epithets and called worshippers who had gathered for evening prayer “terrorists.” One witness told the New York Post the man was “very clearly intoxicated” and had a beer bottle in his hand at the time.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38863919/ns/us_news-life/

[Osprey 199]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38863919/ns/us_news-life/

 

So a drunk guy screaming at Muslims = Muslims blasting open a church with RPGs and burning Bibles and Crosses?

 

Also, the Christian Terrorism wasn't directed at Muslims in the first article you posted, but homosexuals and abortion clinics. Doesn't make it right, but it wasn't directed at a specific religious group.

 

Do you really want to get into Christian vs. Muslim terrorism? How many men, women, and children have been raped and murdered in Darfur alone by the Islamic Janjaweed? The Congo? Somalia, where Christians are still executed and hung as reminders today?

 

When is the last time a Christian army slaughtered non-Believers in the name of Christ? The Crusades? I can name you 20 instances in which Islamic factions/armies have executed non-Muslims ranging from the Balkans to Uganda in the last 40 years.

[Magicman28 295]

EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

 

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

 

 

Exodus is when Moses brought out the slaves from Egypt. He sang that specific verse. Let me ask you something? Does one have a right to defend themselves? Do you think its wrong if God is both peace and a warrior? The contradiction would be if God did both at the same time.

 

JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.

 

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

 

Simple. My father is a great man. Hes served this country in the military and law enforcement. Hes now doing charity work while battling Parkinson's and Heart Disease. Now I do have traits from him but imo, hes greater then me. I don't know how or if I could handle all that with the same integrity. Its the same with God. I believe I have some of God traits but I don't believe I'm equal to God. I don't know what its like to create what he has. Don't think I had the strength or knowledge to do what God does. Being a believer in God and all.

 

PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

 

ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

 

1CO 1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent

 

 

Look at the first verse. Wisdom is principal. Look at the 2nd. MUCH wisdom is grief. You also have to consider the sources. In the 2nd verse, it comes from the Preacher who was stating that wisdom with heart is evil. The is pretty much common sense. Ignorance is bliss but to much wisdom can also lead to bad things especially if you have no heart. Also, being wise in life but without God is also bad. I can have the highest IQ in the world. Means nothing good without an heart.

 

 

[quoteISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

 

DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

]

 

 

Isaiah was speaking in present time when he stated that verse. He was speaking to the people of Judah who were careless. He was predicting what would happen. Many nations wanted to attack them and there was quite of negativity going on. Isaiah was trying to guide them to a better life.

 

Deutronomy 24:16 was referring to crimes by man laws.

 

PSA 92:12: "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree."

 

ISA 57:1: "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart."

 

 

Psalms was a praise to the righteous in eternity. Isiaiah, AGAIN, was speaking in present time in life to a kingdom that was on course for disaster. If you read in its entirity you'll see more clearly. Isaiah 57:1,2 "The righteous perish, and no one ponders it in his heart; devout men are taken away and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil. Those who walk uprightly enter into peace; they find rest as they lie in death."

 

 

[Jesus' last words

 

MAT 27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."

 

LUK 23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

 

JOH 19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."/quote]

 

 

Again, you gotta read the whole picture. In John 19:25 John was close to Jesus and the cross:

Near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, his mother's sister,

Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene. When Jesus saw his mother

there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his

mother, "Dear woman, here is your son," and to the disciple, "Here is your

mother." From that time on, this disciple took her into his home."

 

 

John through scripture was always referred to as the disciple that Jesus loved. So common sense says, John overheard quite a bit. Mattew was farther away hence in the verse " Jesus cried with a LOUD VOICE" and then says it again before yielding up the ghost. Luke was obviously closer because he hears more then Mattew does. These aren't contradictions. Just different testimonials due to place.

 

I advise you, if you really want to understand the Bible, read it...Study it...Stop taking little clips of verses from the Old Testement and compare it to the New Testement. You'll just be taking things out of context.

 

I'll get to your others in the 2nd post you wrote later. Gotta go.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

So a drunk guy screaming at Muslims = Muslims blasting open a church with RPGs and burning Bibles and Crosses?

 

Also, the Christian Terrorism wasn't directed at Muslims in the first article you posted, but homosexuals and abortion clinics. Doesn't make it right, but it wasn't directed at a specific religious group.

 

Do you really want to get into Christian vs. Muslim terrorism? How many men, women, and children have been raped and murdered in Darfur alone by the Islamic Janjaweed? The Congo? Somalia, where Christians are still executed and hung as reminders today?

 

When is the last time a Christian army slaughtered non-Believers in the name of Christ? The Crusades? I can name you 20 instances in which Islamic factions/armies have executed non-Muslims ranging from the Balkans to Uganda in the last 40 years.

 

 

People have used every Religion at one point or another as an excuse to murder. You're using examples from horrible countries to begin with. Hamas shoots RPG's at everybody in Gaza. There were high instances of rape and murder in Darfur to begin with. Religion has potential to take the worst possible things and reproduce them into mass events via mob mentality.

 

You're using the examples of extremists performing abhorrent acts in lawless/war torn areas as an excuse for whats taking place in Gainesville.

 

Whether you intended to or not, you basically said "Since some Muslims perform atrocities in foreign lands, it's not really a big deal that they are persecuted here in the United States".

 

(Somewhat related note: Even though its an horrible thing to do, the crazy jerk planning this whole thing should still be allowed to do his book burning. That still is one of his rights)

[Magicman28 295]

Alright, glad he got it out of the way.

 

 

So I'll respond to:

 

 

 

 

It WAS created by men. How else would it exist? Religion didn't drop out of the sky. A bunch of people decided to create a following for the teachings of Christ. It's not like god threw down a church in the middle of street with a bible inside and a message saying FOLLOW ME.

 

 

Depends on what you believe in. My belief is man didn't invent it. Man invented the corruption, greed, and all that in it. God didn't need to throw a bible down. He had helped from special disciples and prophets. That is my belief. Maybe not yours.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

 

I advise you, if you really want to understand the Bible, read it...Study it...Stop taking little clips of verses from the Old Testement and compare it to the New Testement. You'll just be taking things out of context.

 

I'll get to your others in the 2nd post you wrote later. Gotta go.

 

I do understand it. I've read it. I've gotten spiritual teaching from being raised catholic and academic teaching from a few academic courses I've taken.

[Magicman28 295]

I do understand it. I've read it. I've gotten spiritual teaching from being raised catholic and academic teaching from a few academic courses I've taken.

 

 

Your profile says you are in your early 20's. I'm 32. I still haven't learned it 100% yet. It takes committment and a lot of time not just going through it as a youth. Plus ones logical thinking when they were young is clearly different when they become an adult. Thats why I continue to read it and will continue to do so until I die.

 

You really don't understand it because you example of contradictions are not contradictions at all but verses pulled out of context. That in itself any theologist would tell you is a complete 180 from what your suppose to do when reading and ATTEMPTING to understand The Bible.

[Optimist Prime 197]

just thought id throw my hat in... my dad is a daoist. my stepmom, who married my dad when i was 12, is a more spiritual form of buddhist and i became a christian at the age of 19, my sophomore year in college.

 

a little about the bible...

 

the bible was written by men for sure. the old testament was written by many different authors about the people israel over many centuries. they are both commentaries on the history of israel and accounts of the disposition they stood in before their lord God. i dont know nearly as much about the old testament as i do about the new.

 

all the books currently in the new testament were written within the first century, and the ones they decided to leave out were written much later, after the first generation of christians had already died, by people with no direct connection to the first apostles. the gospels tell the stories of Jesus and his ministry, and the epistles were letters written to the first churches, written by leaders. revelation is a vision of the end of days. the new testament books were all written by eyewitnesses of Jesus or people who knew these eyewitnesses. the secondhand accounts (luke, mark) were written by people who knew the apostles and other eyewitnesses of Jesus at the time, as they were all still alive when these were written. in fact, luke was a companion of paul during much of his travels accounted in the book of acts. the books chosen to be in the christian bible were decided at the council of nicea based on the apostolic message (the teachings were known to be the same as what was taught in the first church) and apostolic succession (they had at least a direct, first person connection to the apostles), not which ones people liked the best or agreed the most with each other.

 

just a little background info for those interested.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

just thought id throw my hat in... my dad is a daoist. my stepmom, who married my dad when i was 12, is a more spiritual form of buddhist and i became a christian at the age of 19, my sophomore year in college.

 

a little about the bible...

 

the bible was written by men for sure. the old testament was written by many different authors about the people israel over many centuries. they are both commentaries on the history of israel and accounts of the disposition they stood in before their lord God. i dont know nearly as much about the old testament as i do about the new.

 

all the books currently in the new testament were written within the first century, and the ones they decided to leave out were written much later, after the first generation of christians had already died, by people with no direct connection to the first apostles. the gospels tell the stories of Jesus and his ministry, and the epistles were letters written to the first churches, written by leaders. revelation is a vision of the end of days. the new testament books were all written by eyewitnesses of Jesus or people who knew these eyewitnesses. the secondhand accounts (luke, mark) were written by people who knew the apostles and other eyewitnesses of Jesus at the time, as they were all still alive when these were written. in fact, luke was a companion of paul during much of his travels accounted in the book of acts. the books chosen to be in the christian bible were decided at the council of nicea based on the apostolic message (the teachings were known to be the same as what was taught in the first church) and apostolic succession (they had at least a direct, first person connection to the apostles), not which ones people liked the best or agreed the most with each other.

 

just a little background info for those interested.

 

 

Many modern scholars debate the actual authors. For example, The Gospel of Paul may or may not have been actually written by Paul. Instead they were written by the followers of Paul.

 

This would help account for the slight differences in narrative between Matt, Mark, and Luke for instance.

 

EDIT: I should point out that this is a hypothesis, not fact.