NOLA trades Collison = no CP3 to Magic?

[Shock Phantom 263]

@magicLA

All everyone is trying to tell you is that we can get something better at the deadline for VC's contract than bench players. Plus Azibuke played in GS, so his stats are inflated. Just give it up. No one would do this trade, neither the Magic nor the Knicks.

[Emory889 353]

Yeah, I thought about Battier's age, but I think he has a couple good years left, and would still be the 2nd or 3rd best defender on our team. As for Hayes, he played the starting C job for the Rockets well, and is one of the better post defenders in the league. He wouldn't play that many minutes and I don't think he is much, if at all a downgrade of Gortat. But out of the 3 trades I'd do, that would be the last one.

 

He played center for the Rockets because after Yao went down, the Rockets had no one with legitimate center size. I can't think of many teams in the league that would consider Hayes as an upgrade to their current backup center and I doubt anyone would use him as a starter.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

He played center for the Rockets because after Yao went down, the Rockets had no one with legitimate center size. I can't think of many teams in the league that would consider Hayes as an upgrade to their current backup center and I doubt anyone would use him as a starter.

 

nah, they love hayes because he's one of the best post defenders in the league.

[BMP 424]

Azu's numbers are a rollercoaster when he has a higher USG%, which would be his role. You're making it seem like him putting those numbers up with that USG% is a plus. They're only 5 possessions apart, and in 5 possessions, Carter was able to score 2.6 more points, not to mention that while his assist numbers weren't very impressive, Azu's were awful, especially for a run and gun team.

 

 

Oh, and not to mention that Golden State stats are pretty much garbage, AND that Carter at least made the team better, while Azu made his team better only defensively, while making them worse offensively. Our team's ORTg AND DRTg were better with Carter ON the floor, and surprisingly, defensively we were better by 6.7 points. +0.8 offensively. Azu affected the defense by 3.3 points, and the team was better by 0.6 offensively with him on the floor.

 

 

 

The trade you're proposing is an absolute last day of the deadline "holy crap, no one else wants Carter, I'll guess we'll take some scrubs from the Knicks, lose in talent, and hope we make up for it next year by striking gold and these guys decide to become productive enough not to cause problems in the future" kind of trade.

 

 

 

 

The only thing Azu has on Carter really is efficiency, but these stats need to be disregarded because it's freaking Golden State. Pietrus himself had a TS% of nearly 60% in 2007 with them. Barnes' 2nd highest TS% and eFG% came in Golden State (first only here, but he was involved in far less possessions). Stephen Jackson's 3 most efficient years were in Golden State (and he's an extremely inefficient chucker), where even his FG% increased by A LOT when he moved from Indiana to Golden State. Do you understand where I'm getting at?

 

 

 

 

 

Now, onto Iggy. While his contract is bad, it's certainly not Rudy Gay bad, especially since we're talking about a defensively superior swingman that can get his own shot and gets to the line a fair amount. He was able to average .6 more points than Carter on 4 less possessions, while also being their man play maker. He's a 1st option scorer, 2nd or 3rd option play maker being asked to be a 1st option scorer and 1st option play maker on a bad team. He's not Wade/LeBron/Kobe. It's tough to expect him to be able to do it all, and with the Magic he wouldn't be. He'd be the guy defending the opposing team's best player, getting most of the ball during crunch time, and being able to also make plays, get to the foul line, etc, etc (I'm just being redundant at this point).

 

 

Now, to your point of how he can't perform with a shoot first PG. Are you talking about the rookie? Because that's a rather unfair comparison. Why not talk about Andre Miller, who while was definitely a "pass first point guard" earlier in his career, had the same assist% as Jameer Nelson, who is quite possibly the biggest shoot first PG in the world (according to a lot of people, obviously I'm exaggerating here). Andre Miller was around the 30% assisted field goal mark, Nelson at 32%. Not a big difference in pace and amount of assists.

 

 

Anyways, Andre Miller, NOT a pass first point guard, makes me wonder why you made that comment (in regards to Iggy not doing well with shoot first PGs), unless you categorized him as such, but you'd be wrong there.

 

Iggy's BEST two years (remember, he probably hasn't even reached his peak yet) were with a veteran PG, a good defensive center, switching the role of play maker and scorer with his guard. Does any of this seem a bit familiar to you?

 

 

The biggest flaw in Iggy's game is his 3pt shooting, but his rebounding, slashing, and play making make up for it.

 

 

 

 

Onto contracts. We're due for $15 mil WITH Gortat, and that's highly unlikely. If he's still on the team, he will most likely opt out, unless he somehow is able to get PT playing at PF as well (which would mean he made huge strides in his offensive game, and all of the sudden Gortat as our backup PF and C for $7.7 would be great. Technically, the only guy we'd have in contract would be Duhon at $4 mil. If Orton worked out, that's 2.1 mil more, and if he didn't, we drop him (team option). So, $4 mil total salaries. With Iggy, we'be be at no more than $20 mil. Say the cap stays the same, we'd still have enough to be able to re-sign Jameer (at that point, probably around $4 mil), JJ ($3 mil), backup swingman for $3mil (we still have $20 mil left), which should be enough to fill the PF/backup C positions and add depth. In fact, it'd be backwards. We could sign all our depths and add a PF, as well as swingman, and still be able to go over the cap to re-sign Howard, Redick, and say Meer, which should cost the team in the end no more than $80mil in the tax.

 

To put it in perspective with now, we're 92 over.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then again, it's a bit pointless talking about the cap and salaries when a lockout could very well be happening.

[E27 33]

nah, just Lebron James and Dwayne Wade warming up 200 miles south of Oville as we speak - I guess Pietrus is going to be playing ALOT or maybe JJ , Vince and Q will become our defensive stoppers - or even more awesome when they come with a backcourt of Wade/Miller/Lebron....yep lets wait til next summer your right...in case your curious here is a list of next summers free agents- remember we'll only have the MLE.

I'm not curious at all actually. But thank you for putting another hyperlink in a post of yours. I was looking forward to it.

[Emory889 353]

nah, they love hayes because he's one of the best post defenders in the league.

 

Yeah, I was going to let that part go. Even the scrappiest post defender is going to have severe limitations when he's playing center at 6'6. Best post defenders in the league is a stretch at best.

[magicLA 57]

I'm not curious at all actually. But thank you for putting another hyperlink in a post of yours. I was looking forward to it.

 

yeah, hyperlinks to actual facts suck - they just get in the way of everything...

[magicLA 57]

@magicLA

All everyone is trying to tell you is that we can get something better at the deadline for VC's contract than bench players. Plus Azibuke played in GS, so his stats are inflated. Just give it up. No one would do this trade, neither the Magic nor the Knicks.

 

I guess I'm just looking for someone to point to who that better available wing is that is going to be available later in the season. So far, BMP has made the only decent suggestion with Iggy - but to me that is a huge risk for the Magic to retool the entire offense mid season to adjust to Iggy's style of play and on top of that to take on his huge contract. I am just trying to provide a feasible move that increases our future flexibility and doesn't leave us hanging with Vince Carter's contract without the opportunity to upgrade the wing position.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I guess I'm just looking for someone to point to who that better available wing is that is going to be available later in the season. So far, BMP has made the only decent suggestion with Iggy - but to me that is a huge risk for the Magic to retool the entire offense mid season to adjust to Iggy's style of play and on top of that to take on his huge contract. I am just trying to provide a feasible move that increases our future flexibility and doesn't leave us hanging with Vince Carter's contract without the opportunity to upgrade the wing position.

 

keeping carter>making a dumb trade for the sake of making a trade

[E27 33]

keeping carter>making a dumb trade for the sake of making a trade

Exactly. Especially that deal proposed by magicLA

[Emory889 353]

I guess I'm just looking for someone to point to who that better available wing is that is going to be available later in the season. So far, BMP has made the only decent suggestion with Iggy - but to me that is a huge risk for the Magic to retool the entire offense mid season to adjust to Iggy's style of play and on top of that to take on his huge contract. I am just trying to provide a feasible move that increases our future flexibility and doesn't leave us hanging with Vince Carter's contract without the opportunity to upgrade the wing position.

 

How does it improve our future flexibility when it still leaves us way over the salary cap while giving away all of our trade assets?

[Murphy13 185]

keeping carter>making a dumb trade for the sake of making a trade

 

You were the one suggesting bad trades just a page or two ago...why the change of heart?