Hoopsworld's Bill Ingram says Magic better than Cavs.

[Cavsman07 0]

quote:

Originally posted by deadman54:

to be honest im not getting too exicted over what expert favours who as it is time of the teams to put up or shut up.

 

i dont know whats going on inside each camp we fans will only be told what ever rubbish the teams feed the media at this stage.

 

im rapt that we are getting some attention but ill leave the celebration till june provided we take this good form and carry it for the rest of the year, this is somthing i believe we will do.

agreed, analysts can do all the talking they want, but it's the players that are on the court doing the work.

[~O~ 565]

I was just eager for a Cavs fan to post in this seeing that the OP said "I imagine it will attract a slew of trolls". Well your number one and can you tell us why you are here?

 

Honestly, I think we're too nice to you guys. lol

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

quote:

Originally posted by O-dub:

I was just eager for a Cavs fan to post in this seeing that the OP said "I imagine it will attract a slew of trolls". Well your number one and can you tell us why you are here?

 

Honestly, I think we're too nice to you guys. lol

 

too late for him

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by KillingInTheNameOf:

Thanx for pointing out the obvious flaws in this claim...

 

Will the real Kitno please stand up? Is he the multifaceted, multinational, multimillionaire that claims to be politically & analytically adept in other threads? Or is he the guy that uses slang terms like "playa" while "thanx"ing others for disproving opionions he chooses to dispute with elementary mathematics and a truly oversimplified view of - CLE has a better record, duh!

[Franchero MVP 391]

quote:

Originally posted by IronMaiden:

The playoffs will determine who the best team is.

 

That's if we can also beat the refs, like last year's ECF.

 

Remember guys, we are facing two opponents per game now.

[UBBALLER8 248]

quote:

Originally posted by ThisIsTheYear:

Whether this is significant or not, I don't know, but I think it's fairly important to note and factor in back-to-backs into the equation.

 

ClE/ORL and who they've faced on the 2nd night of back-to-backs:

 

CLE:

 

1. Toronto

2. Charlotte

3. New York

4. Miami

5. Washington

6. Philly

7. Dallas

8. Houston

9. Philly

10. Phoenix

11. Atlanta

12. Charlotte

13. Golden State

14. Charlotte

15. Toronto

16. Milwaukee

17. Indiana

18. Indiana

 

Combined total winning % (.474)

 

ORL:

 

1. Phoenix

2. Cleveland

3. Atlanta

4. New York

5. Phoenix

6. Miami

7. Chicago

8. Toronto

9. Atlanta

10. Denver

11. Charlotte

12. Detroit

13. New Orleans

14. Cleveland

15. Miami

16. San Antonio

17. Indiana

 

Combined total winning % (.560)

 

To put it into perspective, this is like facing either a Miami Heat (.558) on a back-to-back 17 times, or facing the Chicago Bulls (.487) on a back-to-back 18 times. To me, that in itself accounts for a decent amount of wins/losses.

 

This is a great point.

 

Great use of stats, TITY.

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

quote:

Originally posted by KillingInTheNameOf:

Thanx for pointing out the obvious flaws in this claim...

 

Will the real Kitno please stand up? Is he the multifaceted, multinational, multimillionaire that claims to be politically & analytically adept in other threads? Or is he the guy that uses slang terms like "playa" while "thanx"ing others for disproving opionions he chooses to dispute with elementary mathematics and a truly oversimplified view of - CLE has a better record, duh!

 

quote:

Bill Ingram: I think Orlando is better than the Cavs, and the difference in their records can easily be accounted for in the difference between their divisions. The Central is a cake walk compared to the Southeast

 

Kitno understands there is no basis for claiming the difference between playing Atl, Miami, Charlotte, & Washington 4x compared to 3x vs. playing Milwakee, Chicago, Indy, & Det 3x compared to 4x easily accounts for the difference in their records as Ingram claims...

 

That it's equally baseless to claim a 6/10's of 1% differential in SOS accounts for a 7.1% differential in record...

 

That Cleveland is statistically punished by virtue of having the best record in any SOS comparision.

 

To highlight the inequitable impact of this, if the season ended today, Orlando would gain a 24 game edge in the win column on Cleveland in a SOS comparision by virtue of the 4 game differential of their divisions. They would gain a 21 game edge by virtue of playing Cleveland 3x!

 

And that to follow this logic, one would also have to conclude Utah & perhaps other teams in the West are better than Orlando & therefore Cleveland...

 

Reading the entire thread...there are valid arguments regarding the division, back-2-back schedules, ect... that might statistically chip away at the differential in their records, but there is no way Ingram or anybody else could statistically back up his claim.

[Kramer 0]

quote:

Originally posted by KillingInTheNameOf:

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

quote:

Originally posted by KillingInTheNameOf:

Thanx for pointing out the obvious flaws in this claim...

 

Will the real Kitno please stand up? Is he the multifaceted, multinational, multimillionaire that claims to be politically & analytically adept in other threads? Or is he the guy that uses slang terms like "playa" while "thanx"ing others for disproving opionions he chooses to dispute with elementary mathematics and a truly oversimplified view of - CLE has a better record, duh!

 

quote:

Bill Ingram: I think Orlando is better than the Cavs, and the difference in their records can easily be accounted for in the difference between their divisions. The Central is a cake walk compared to the Southeast

 

Kitno understands there is no basis for claiming the difference between playing Atl, Miami, Charlotte, & Washington 4x compared to 3x vs. playing Milwakee, Chicago, Indy, & Det 3x compared to 4x easily accounts for the difference in their records as Ingram claims...

 

That it's equally baseless to claim a 6/10's of 1% differential in SOS accounts for a 7.1% differential in record...

 

That Cleveland is statistically punished by virtue of having the best record in any SOS comparision.

 

To highlight the inequitable impact of this, if the season ended today, Orlando would gain a 24 game edge in the win column on Cleveland in a SOS comparision by virtue of the 4 game differential of their divisions. They would gain a 21 game edge by virtue of playing Cleveland 3x!

 

And that to follow this logic, one would also have to conclude Utah & perhaps other teams in the West are better than Orlando & therefore Cleveland...

 

Reading the entire thread...there are valid arguments regarding the division, back-2-back schedules, ect... that might statistically chip away at the differential in their records, but there is no way Ingram or anybody else could statistically back up his claim.

 

KITNO has a different perspective if he doesn't accept that playing in a tougher division is more difficult than playing in a weaker division. It's really that simple and it makes a large difference.

 

Playing the Bobcats, Heat, and Hawks as the best team in their division isn't the same as playing them as the best team in a different divison. The Bobcats, Heat, and Hawks show up against the Magic the way the Bucks, Bulls, and Pistons do the Cavs and if you don't think that accounts for a game or two you know even less than it would seem.

 

And it is a fact that a team is less likely to win on a back to back and a fact that it is more difficult win against superior competiton but more importantly, you can't find any correlation between the record a team has on a back to back and their actual talent and teams don't play back to backs when it counts. Last I looked, which I don't really know when it was, the Cavs had like three less losses on the second night of back to backs than the Magic and since there isn't a correlation between playoff success and that record, well, we may as well include preseason records too.

 

So the Cavs probably play in the divison with the weakest 2-5 in the East and the Magic are a part of the best divison in basketball. What does that account for, at least two games? Throw in two or three losses that shouldn't even be recognized and boom we're a victory away Sunday from almost being tied with them. Take it a step further, flip situations, and discount useless back to back records and the Magic probably have homecourt throughout.

[TampaTony 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Kramer:

KITNO's an idiot if he doesn't accept that playing in a tougher division is more difficult than playing in a weaker division. It's really that simple and it makes a large difference.

 

Playing the Bobcats, Heat, and Hawks as the best team in their division isn't the same as playing them as the best team in a different divison. The Bobcats, Heat, and Hawks show up against the Magic the way the Bucks, Bulls, and Pistons do the Cavs and if you don't think that accounts for a game or two you know even less than it would seem.

 

And it is a fact that a team is less likely to win on a back to back and a fact that it is more difficult win against superior competiton but more importantly, you can't find any correlation between the record a team has on a back to back and their actual talent and teams don't play back to backs when it counts. Last I looked, which I don't really know when it was, the Cavs had like three less losses on the second night of back to backs than the Magic and since there isn't a correlation between playoff success and that record, well, we may as well include preseason records too.

 

So the Cavs probably play in the divison with the weakest 2-5 in the East and the Magic are a part of the best divison in basketball. What does that account for, at least two games? Throw in two or three losses that shouldn't even be recognized and boom we're a victory away Sunday from almost being tied with them. Take it a step further, flip situations, and discount useless back to back records and the Magic probably have homecourt throughout.

 

BOOM!! big +1

[optics 0]

The Cavaliers hang ESPN Power Ranking banners in the Quicken Loans Arena .. so they're better than us ..

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

quote:

Originally posted by Kramer:

KITNO's an idiot if he doesn't accept that playing in a tougher division is more difficult than playing in a weaker division. It's really that simple and it makes a large difference.

 

Is 4 games a large difference? I know I'm an idiot, but I thought 4 was less than 6???

 

quote:

Playing the Bobcats, Heat, and Hawks as the best team in their division isn't the same as playing them as the best team in a different divison. The Bobcats, Heat, and Hawks show up against the Magic the way the Bucks, Bulls, and Pistons do the Cavs and if you don't think that accounts for a game or two you know even less than it would seem.

 

Excellent theory. Perhaps this is the theory Ingram used to conclude 4 > 6?

 

I'm going to dismiss Osprey's post as white noise.

 

quote:

So the Cavs probably play in the divison with the weakest 2-5 in the East and the Magic are a part of the best divison in basketball. What does that account for, at least two games?

 

Wait, this is so confusing. I was just wrapping my head around the 4 > 6 theory...

 

So, if Cleveland played Atl, Mia, Char, Wash a 4x instead of Mil, Chi, Indy, Det (Orlando vice versa) that would account for "at least" a two game swing in records?

 

I'm way to big an idiot to make sense of that.

But, and correct me if I'm wrong, even you appear to be dispelling Ingrams claim with this modest projection???

 

Since that can't possibly be right, might I suggest you sprinkle some of the Magic dust used below on this formula to conclude this account for at least 6 games.

 

 

quote:

Throw in two or three losses that shouldn't even be recognized

 

Who can argue with this logic?

 

quote:

and boom we're a victory away Sunday from almost being tied with them. Take it a step further, flip situations, and discount useless back to back records and the Magic probably have homecourt throughout.

 

Simply Amazing!!! I'm in awe of how simple you made that. It was as if I was listening to Pelosi & Obama explain the virtues of Obamacare together.

 

I can sleep better now knowing that Orlando really was the better regular season team from start to finish? Pure Bliss, that 7-8 stretch was surely a mirage.

 

There is clearly no distinction between acknowledging the fact Cleveland was the better regular season team, identifying them as the better team right now, and claiming they would beat the Magic in a playoff series...I must recognize in my attempt to be objective, I've become a biased Cavs sympathizer. What an idiot I am...

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

quote:

Originally posted by KillingInTheNameOf:

quote:

Originally posted by Kramer:

KITNO's an idiot if he doesn't accept that playing in a tougher division is more difficult than playing in a weaker division. It's really that simple and it makes a large difference.

 

Is 4 games a large difference? I know I'm an idiot, but I thought 4 was less than 6???

 

quote:

Playing the Bobcats, Heat, and Hawks as the best team in their division isn't the same as playing them as the best team in a different divison. The Bobcats, Heat, and Hawks show up against the Magic the way the Bucks, Bulls, and Pistons do the Cavs and if you don't think that accounts for a game or two you know even less than it would seem.

 

Excellent theory. Perhaps this is the theory Ingram used to conclude 4 > 6?

 

I'm going to dismiss Osprey's post as white noise.

 

quote:

So the Cavs probably play in the divison with the weakest 2-5 in the East and the Magic are a part of the best divison in basketball. What does that account for, at least two games?

 

Wait, this is so confusing. I was just wrapping my head around the 4 > 6 theory...

 

So, if Cleveland played Atl, Mia, Char, Wash a 4x instead of Mil, Chi, Indy, Det (Orlando vice versa) that would account for "at least" a two game swing in records?

 

I'm way to big an idiot to make sense of that.

But, and correct me if I'm wrong, even you appear to be dispelling Ingrams claim with this modest projection???

 

Since that can't possibly be right, might I suggest you sprinkle some of the Magic dust used below on this formula to conclude this account for at least 6 games.

 

 

quote:

Throw in two or three losses that shouldn't even be recognized

 

Who can argue with this logic?

 

quote:

and boom we're a victory away Sunday from almost being tied with them. Take it a step further, flip situations, and discount useless back to back records and the Magic probably have homecourt throughout.

 

Simply Amazing!!! I'm in awe of how simple you made that. It was as if I was listening to Pelosi & Obama explain the virtues of Obamacare together.

 

I can sleep better now knowing that Orlando really was the better regular season team from start to finish? Pure Bliss, that 7-8 stretch was surely a mirage.

 

There is clearly no distinction between acknowledging the fact Cleveland was the better regular season team, identifying them as the better team right now, and claiming they would beat the Magic in a playoff series...I must recognize in my attempt to be objective, I've become a biased Cavs sympathizer. What an idiot I am...

 

make your point without being so smug