With Nelson (20-12)...With J. Will (13-4) Sentinel

[BMP 424]

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Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

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Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

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Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

Jameer's injury history is scary, and gets magnified further by how well the Magic play in his absence. As much as Jammer means to the current and future success of this team, it simply can't be ignored that the Magic have played at a very high level without him in two consecutive seasons, while replacing hom with two PGs on the downside of their careers.

 

 

So, even though we had a MUCH higher record WITH Jameer last season, we still played better going 27-14? Are you serious? Had Jameer stayed healthy all of last year playing the way he was I'd see us cruising to the Finals and perhaps even winning it.

 

In regards to last year's record without Jameer, during the regular season we were 36-11 (.765) with Jameer, then 3-3 with AJ (.500) and then 20-9 with Alston (.689) - with two of those losses coming in the last couple games when starters were sitting to rest for the playoffs, making Rafer's win percentage (.740) if that is taken into account. So which stretch of games truly indicates how important Jameer is to the success of this team? Is it the first 47 games where we were the best team in the league and obviously firing on all cylinders? Or was it the stretch of games after we acquired Alston (including our run to the Finals) where chemistry needed to be developed with a new PG orchestrating the offense, yet we were still one of the top 2-3 teams in the NBA? Further, would it be unfair to include our 1-4 record during the Finals when Jameer came back, making our record last year with Jameer 37-15 (.711)?

 

Fast forward to this year and history seems to be repeating itself. Creating the question once again, how important is Jameer to the success of this team?

 

Having a guy on the floor that can create for himself (which we did not have last year) is extremely important. Granted this is what VC was brought here to do, who else on this team is going to take that role if he's not performing well?

[SmackDaddy 30]

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Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

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Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

would it be unfair to include our 1-4 record during the Finals when Jameer came back, making our record last year with Jameer 37-15 (.711)?

 

Jameer didn't start any of those Finals games, so counting them for Jameer but not for Rafer would be fairly stupid.

 

Right, but in the previous post that I quoted, BMPancakes was including those 5 games for Rafer's record and not Jameer's even though in the four losses against LA Rafer avg'd 27.7mpg while Jameer avg'd 20mpg and dureing the one victory Rafer logged 37min while Jameer logged only 11min.

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

Having a guy on the floor that can create for himself (which we did not have last year) is extremely important. Granted this is what VC was brought here to do, who else on this team is going to take that role if he's not performing well?

 

ummm...huh???

 

The name Hedo ring a bell? And if it does, it actually only serves to further support my point. Last year we had Hedo on this team to stepin and control the ball when Jameer was out. Hedo played at a high level and softened the blow of losing Jameer. This year we have VC to fill this role, who is having the worst year of his career, and the team is still playing very good ball while our our all-star PG is out.

 

So again I ask, where is the support that Jameer is important to this team's success? And how much more important is he than (2) 30+ Pg's on the backside of their careers?

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

quote:

Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

Having a guy on the floor that can create for himself (which we did not have last year) is extremely important. Granted this is what VC was brought here to do, who else on this team is going to take that role if he's not performing well?

 

ummm...huh???

 

The name Hedo ring a bell?

 

I don't think the Hedo flail counts as creating for yourself.

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

I don't think the Hedo flail counts as creating for yourself.

 

C'mon DOM. I was nearly as critical of Hedo as you were last year, but to say that Hedo didn't or couldn't create shots is preposterous.

[Kramer 0]

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Originally posted by VaBchMagicFan:

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Originally posted by Kramer:

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Originally posted by VaBchMagicFan:

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Originally posted by Papa Butts:

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him making the All-star team was a fluke.

 

Stopped reading right there.

 

If you think shooting great for 41 games is a fluke, then you have no idea what the definition of fluke is.

 

On TOP of that, he wasn't voted in based on popularity (ala Iverson). It was the GM's who voted him in; they realized what a menace he was to their team.

His shooting numbers were a fluke, hasn't he shown that? The guy is a middle of the pack starting PG in the league.He isn't in the top 10 but not in the bottom 10. He just will probably never make an all-star team again. So your argument is 41 games is not a fluke while totally disregarding what he did over his career?

 

Lol, so the guy who was the quickest to attack Dwight Howard, Vince Carter, and Rashard Lewis during the offensive struggles this season is using a career body of work as an argument?

 

You're so stupid and hypocritical. Please, everybody doesn't want you here. Just leave and take your almost always shot down and embarrased ideas with you

I attacked Dwight not getting the ball, he will only get better if he is allowed to fail in games. I love Shard(I think he is overpaid) but I like his game and he hasn't played that bad offensively, he just doesn't get enough shots.His main problem is defensively.

 

As far as VC he just isn't a good fit on this team, he needs the ball to much. On some teams he would still put up greta numbers but how this team is built VC isn't a good fit, so far I am right. Not to mention his age and durability issues,Dwight,Shard and Meer are all younger. VC is truly the only player I dislike on this team, I have more of a problem with management and how this team plays than the actual players on it.

 

Lol, its a lie because you've been telling me for weeks that Howard just doesn't have enough post moves. You're an idiot and when things change you forget that you were wrong. I can't think of three qualities worse I can find in a human being.

[Kramer 0]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

I don't think the Hedo flail counts as creating for yourself.

 

C'mon DOM. I was nearly as critical of Hedo as you were last year, but to say that Hedo didn't or couldn't create shots is preposterous.

 

He didn't. People remember what didn't happen. They remember him being Mr. Triple Double and this and that but at the end of the day if Hedo had the ball in his hand, he was much more likely to take an offbalance shot or an impossibly difficult shot around the rim than pass. If you think otherwise you just aren't remembering the whole season and to compare what Nelson or Carter did in meaningless October to what Hedo did in April and May is just retarded. Hedo was worse than Carter heading into January last season.

[Kramer 0]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

quote:

Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

Having a guy on the floor that can create for himself (which we did not have last year) is extremely important. Granted this is what VC was brought here to do, who else on this team is going to take that role if he's not performing well?

 

ummm...huh???

 

The name Hedo ring a bell? And if it does, it actually only serves to further support my point. Last year we had Hedo on this team to stepin and control the ball when Jameer was out. Hedo played at a high level and softened the blow of losing Jameer. This year we have VC to fill this role, who is having the worst year of his career, and the team is still playing very good ball while our our all-star PG is out.

 

So again I ask, where is the support that Jameer is important to this team's success? And how much more important is he than (2) 30+ Pg's on the backside of their careers?

 

You're wrong. Hedo may have created his own shot 20 times last season. He is an impossibly slow and unathletic player on the perimeter. His career was made entirely because of Dwight Howard. I'd bet Carter's created as many good looks for himself this season than Hedo did his entire tenure with the Magic. Truely an awful one on one player

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

I don't think the Hedo flail counts as creating for yourself.

 

C'mon DOM. I was nearly as critical of Hedo as you were last year, but to say that Hedo didn't or couldn't create shots is preposterous.

 

Most of Hedo's "created shots" came off the pick and roll, not off isolations. I was separating the two mentally, but if you weren't doing that, then yes, I'll concede the point that Hedo could create off the pick and roll.

 

His attempts to create off isolations, however, typically ended in turnovers, Turk-o-flails, and shots so forced VC on a bad day would see them and say: "Jesus, why would you shoot that?".

[Kramer 0]

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Originally posted by Aussie Magic fan:

Funny how Vince breaks out of his slump when Jameer's out

 

Funny how we forget that game they combined for like 40/16/10. It isn't funny, you aren't saying anything clever, it's just a coincidence.

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

Most of Hedo's "created shots" came off the pick and roll, not off isolations. I was separating the two mentally, but if you weren't doing that, then yes, I'll concede the point that Hedo could create off the pick and roll.

 

His attempts to create off isolations, however, typically ended in turnovers, Turk-o-flails, and shots so forced VC on a bad day would see them and say: "Jesus, why would you shoot that?".

 

How many iso creations (not off of pick and roll plays) does Jameer participate in?

 

Listen, I'm not saying that Hedo is Kobe. He clearly is not. I hated his game. But to say that this team did not have anybody to create shots in Jameer's absence last year while pointing at VC this year as the player that DOES that is crazy.

[Kramer 0]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

Most of Hedo's "created shots" came off the pick and roll, not off isolations. I was separating the two mentally, but if you weren't doing that, then yes, I'll concede the point that Hedo could create off the pick and roll.

 

His attempts to create off isolations, however, typically ended in turnovers, Turk-o-flails, and shots so forced VC on a bad day would see them and say: "Jesus, why would you shoot that?".

 

How many iso creations (not off of pick and roll plays) does Jameer participate in?

 

Listen, I'm not saying that Hedo is Kobe. He clearly is not. I hated his game. But to say that this team did not have anybody to create shots in Jameer's absence last year while pointing at VC this year as the player that DOES that is crazy.

 

Jameer is a much, much more effective one on one player than Hedo has ever been and probably ever will. Jameer really quick, really thick, and a really good shooter. He puts his head down and steps back, well, he's created a shot for himself. Isolation offense just isn't good for the team but down the stretch in quarters and games, Jameer has been able to easily get a fantastic perimeter look really since his rookie season. Awful example