Buyer's remorse on the Turk/Carter swap(Hollin. Insider)

[T REX 0]

quote:

Originally posted by M4G1C:

quote:

Originally posted by T REX:

quote:

Originally posted by Jaybird:

This dead horse has been beaten to death many times over. Last years finals team, that barely beat Boston w/o Garnett and Sheed, wasn't able to beat the Lakers nor could it had they met again. Period. Keeping that team together by resigning Turk to a $50 million deal would have been a foolish move.

 

As it stands, we have Carter off the books in two years, a trade exception, and the potential to make it ALL the way. We all know what this team is capable of. It's up to them to make it happen.

 

Last years team over-achieved, to say the least, and still couldn't win a trophy.

 

VC wasn't an upgrade. I guess that's the point some are trying to make. The chemistry with ALston Lee Lewis Howard Turk was special. We may have appeared to upgraded talent but downgraded in chemistry. It all started with Jameer DEMANDING to play in last year's finals. That ruined the run we were on. No way this team gets out of the East...none.

 

you are delusional

 

How so? Feel free to educate me....thanks.

[Vellassco 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Acres 3:16:

 

Vince's has a team option after 1 yr, it's not about math it's about reading up on contracts.

 

The option was not keep Turk and don't bother with Vince, it was over pay to keep Turk or go get Vince, big difference there.

 

Otis Smith: " Money Ain't A Thang"

 

This team was set for Championship 3-4 years ego. Every year 1 or 2 player have been added to this roster and they get used to play together in time. Hedo, Dwight, Shard, Redick, Meer they are not just great players, also good friends of eachothers. Hedo has been charged to be network center of this well-shaped nervous system. Facilitator. His value is debatable, Ok, but it should be somewhere around say 7-10 mil/year. 1-1.5 more or less from Smith's initial offer. Too much? No. Otis Smith: " Money Ain't A Thang".

 

What about contract year? Will Hedo loose his head or his arms in his 34? No. Has he been known as great athlete like Vince? No. I can count lots of players who are still dominating the league in their mid 30ies, esp play makers.

 

So what?

 

- The option was keep Turk

- There were no relation with Vince.

 

It was Poker Match from Smith's POV. He bluffed and failed to anticipate Hedo's hand. His prediction was somewhere btw PEC's global recession theory and DOM's PER theory (9th while A.Foyle sitting 3rd or something?). Hedo had no desire to play card game, took this action as personal and left the table. Yearly 1-2 mil ain't a thang for him too. Whatever. Smith is da Man!!!

 

What happened next? Smith decided to cut payroll and went all in on massive luxury tax. (Bass, Gortah, Barnes). Now, you came to this point with great expectations. The theory behind having opportunities after Vince expiring contact is definitively bullchit. There is/will always space for moves in the NBA. Especially after winning a ring, Player ratings would be higher and more tradeble than rest of the league.

 

Look I have no intention to just come here and bash your society. Contrarily i really missed here (Not 09-10 board, its really weird this year). I missed DOM and his family, indeed. It was mostly enjoyable to debate their bi-polar arguments. There were some classy act along with his background. I have never taken it as a war that i never have a chance to win with my broken english. It was just too sad to see him google it and put Human Violation stuffs in a sportive environment. It was out of bound. (Btw i should give him special credit for his analogy: swallowed by a great whale)

 

Just like your legendary Irish! Mod, said: Its too early to speak. League is still to young. there is long way to go.

[Jaybird 1]

Honestly, I'd rather have more talent while not being locked into more contract nightmares than we already are. Again, this team is capable of beating anyone, they just aren't showing it. It's evident from the diversity of players who post good games on different nights. If they could just do it more often or consistently, this discussion wouldn't be taking place.

 

Also, a big part of the Turk/Carter business hasn't even been used yet. If Otis is able to maximize the use of the trade exception, nobody will be able to argue this topic.

[Mr.Dwight Howard 0]

You guys are all stupid. Every one of you

[solciego 0]

quote:

Originally posted by T REX:

This goes back to exactly my argument.....

 

VC is better than Turk

 

Turk was a better FIT on this team than VC.

 

WOuld you rather have great chemistry and a cohesive unit or more talent and no chemistry offensively and defensively?

 

A bonded team with less talent will go further than a talented team with little chemistry.

 

If you read any of these post you would see nobody denying the value of Turk but we would not reapet with last years team period. Not with Boston healthy + Sheed ,Cleaveland + Shaq & be stuck with yet another big contract in Hedo it would have been great to keep Hedo & get VC that would have been the best deal but not likely. I didn't see Hedo although we had the good chemistry ect.. wanting to stay here for less money or better yet not opting out of his contract to stay here & WIN a championship but guess what he didn't so that said the VC deal was a good one weather it works now or later buy freeing us up in salary.If we didn't make the move we would be with out VC & Hedo because the only way Turk would have stayed was with a big contract and it just wasn't wise for the Magic to do so.He would have left and we would have gotten nothing just like when Shaq left for LA.

 

so to answer your question, I would rather have a CHAMPIONSHIP than chemistry,cohisive unit,talent ect... maybe not this year but in the years to come!!!

[ApexTurbo 6]

quote:

Originally posted by solciego:

quote:

Originally posted by T REX:

This goes back to exactly my argument.....

 

VC is better than Turk

 

Turk was a better FIT on this team than VC.

 

WOuld you rather have great chemistry and a cohesive unit or more talent and no chemistry offensively and defensively?

 

A bonded team with less talent will go further than a talented team with little chemistry.

 

If you read any of these post you would see nobody denying the value of Turk but we would not reapet with last years team period. Not with Boston healthy + Sheed ,Cleaveland + Shaq & be stuck with yet another big contract in Hedo it would have been great to keep Hedo & get VC that would have been the best deal but not likely. I didn't see Hedo although we had the good chemistry ect.. wanting to stay here for less money or better yet not opting out of his contract to stay here & WIN a championship but guess what he didn't so that said the VC deal was a good one weather it works now or later buy freeing us up in salary.If we didn't make the move we would be with out VC & Hedo because the only way Turk would have stayed was with a big contract and it just wasn't wise for the Magic to do so.He would have left and we would have gotten nothing just like when Shaq left for LA.

 

so to answer your question, I would rather have a CHAMPIONSHIP than chemistry,cohisive unit,talent ect... maybe not this year but in the years to come!!!

 

So would this have been a championship team?

 

Nelson/J-Will/AJ

Lee/JJ/Peaches

Hedo/Barnes/Peaches

Lewis/Bass/Battie

Howard/Gortat/Battie

[T REX 0]

quote:

Originally posted by solciego:

quote:

Originally posted by T REX:

This goes back to exactly my argument.....

 

VC is better than Turk

 

Turk was a better FIT on this team than VC.

 

WOuld you rather have great chemistry and a cohesive unit or more talent and no chemistry offensively and defensively?

 

A bonded team with less talent will go further than a talented team with little chemistry.

 

If you read any of these post you would see nobody denying the value of Turk but we would not reapet with last years team period. Not with Boston healthy + Sheed ,Cleaveland + Shaq & be stuck with yet another big contract in Hedo it would have been great to keep Hedo & get VC that would have been the best deal but not likely. I didn't see Hedo although we had the good chemistry ect.. wanting to stay here for less money or better yet not opting out of his contract to stay here & WIN a championship but guess what he didn't so that said the VC deal was a good one weather it works now or later buy freeing us up in salary.If we didn't make the move we would be with out VC & Hedo because the only way Turk would have stayed was with a big contract and it just wasn't wise for the Magic to do so.He would have left and we would have gotten nothing just like when Shaq left for LA.

 

so to answer your question, I would rather have a CHAMPIONSHIP than chemistry,cohisive unit,talent ect... maybe not this year but in the years to come!!!

 

We didn't just add pieces....we revamped the whole team. We moved three starters. That's an overhaul not a tweak. Otis thought we needed major changes and now here we are....VC turns 33 in a few days. Next year he'll be 34 going on 35. If you think VC's game looks eroded now....my gawd, wait till next season.

[BLUEHEART 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Acres 3:16:

quote:

Originally posted by BLUEHEART:

quote:

Originally posted by Aussie Magic fan:

VC contract comes off the books next year. We would have been stuck with Hedo's for another 4 years.

 

That's the main positive out of all this.

 

I don'tsee us challenging for a Chip this year with the way we're playing.

 

i dont know how is your math is but vince has 2 years before magic can release him, and hedo has 5 years... so difference is 3 years not 4.

 

orlando decided to pay 2 years 34 mil instead of 5 years 50 milions

 

Vince's has a team option after 1 yr, it's not about math it's about reading up on contracts.

 

The option was not keep Turk and don't bother with Vince, it was over pay to keep Turk or go get Vince, big difference there.

 

so you read both contracts i guesss. so if orlando has team option on vince after 1 year as you say, so he should eligible to release this summer because it will be 1 year... you are wrong... orlando has team option after 2. year of vince contract... believe me reading contracts good but math works also... vince has 3 years and orlando has team option after 2. year.

[Vellassco 0]

quote:

Originally posted by BLUEHEART:

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Acres 3:16:

quote:

Originally posted by BLUEHEART:

quote:

Originally posted by Aussie Magic fan:

VC contract comes off the books next year. We would have been stuck with Hedo's for another 4 years.

 

That's the main positive out of all this.

 

I don'tsee us challenging for a Chip this year with the way we're playing.

 

i dont know how is your math is but vince has 2 years before magic can release him, and hedo has 5 years... so difference is 3 years not 4.

 

orlando decided to pay 2 years 34 mil instead of 5 years 50 milions

 

Vince's has a team option after 1 yr, it's not about math it's about reading up on contracts.

 

The option was not keep Turk and don't bother with Vince, it was over pay to keep Turk or go get Vince, big difference there.

 

so you read both contracts i guesss. so if orlando has team option on vince after 1 year as you say, so he should eligible to release this summer because it will be 1 year... you are wrong... orlando has team option after 2. year of vince contract... believe me reading contracts good but math works also... vince has 3 years and orlando has team option after 2. year.

 

Even if Orlando use this Team Option, it makes $65.5 mil committed Payroll in 2011-12.(Highest Payroll of the league, 2nd Denver $51.9 mil)

 

Dont even think Salary Cap Holds.

[Marc Acres 3:16 418]

quote:

Originally posted by BLUEHEART:

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Acres 3:16:

quote:

Originally posted by BLUEHEART:

quote:

Originally posted by Aussie Magic fan:

VC contract comes off the books next year. We would have been stuck with Hedo's for another 4 years.

 

That's the main positive out of all this.

 

I don'tsee us challenging for a Chip this year with the way we're playing.

 

i dont know how is your math is but vince has 2 years before magic can release him, and hedo has 5 years... so difference is 3 years not 4.

 

orlando decided to pay 2 years 34 mil instead of 5 years 50 milions

 

Vince's has a team option after 1 yr, it's not about math it's about reading up on contracts.

 

The option was not keep Turk and don't bother with Vince, it was over pay to keep Turk or go get Vince, big difference there.

 

so you read both contracts i guesss. so if orlando has team option on vince after 1 year as you say, so he should eligible to release this summer because it will be 1 year... you are wrong... orlando has team option after 2. year of vince contract... believe me reading contracts good but math works also... vince has 3 years and orlando has team option after 2. year.

 

Quoting Hollinger "the dough is guaranteed for only one year after this one -- meaning he won't become the cap albatross Turkoglu might."

 

Next year could be the last on his contract making him a 20+ million dollar trade chip for any team wanting to cut cap. Completely different story if we resigned Turk.

 

Resigning Turk gets you basically the same team that was not able to complete the finals run and makes sure that you will have that same team for a long time. What exactly is the point in that? He's a good player that did a lot for us but if we can't win a title there is no point. We needed 2 things this offseason, not 1 like many people seem to think. A big AND and guy that can create his own shot.

[T REX 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Acres 3:16:

 

Quoting Hollinger "the dough is guaranteed for only one year after this one -- meaning he won't become the cap albatross Turkoglu might."

 

Next year could be the last on his contract making him a 20+ million dollar trade chip for any team wanting to cut cap. Completely different story if we resigned Turk.

 

Resigning Turk gets you basically the same team that was not able to complete the finals run and makes sure that you will have that same team for a long time. What exactly is the point in that? He's a good player that did a lot for us but if we can't win a title there is no point. We needed 2 things this offseason, not 1 like many people seem to think. A big AND and guy that can create his own shot.

 

If we are dumping him like that then it will have meant this experiment failed miserably.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

quote:

Originally posted by T REX:

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Acres 3:16:

 

Quoting Hollinger "the dough is guaranteed for only one year after this one -- meaning he won't become the cap albatross Turkoglu might."

 

Next year could be the last on his contract making him a 20+ million dollar trade chip for any team wanting to cut cap. Completely different story if we resigned Turk.

 

Resigning Turk gets you basically the same team that was not able to complete the finals run and makes sure that you will have that same team for a long time. What exactly is the point in that? He's a good player that did a lot for us but if we can't win a title there is no point. We needed 2 things this offseason, not 1 like many people seem to think. A big AND and guy that can create his own shot.

 

If we are dumping him like that then it will have meant this experiment failed miserably.

 

in the short term and from a "on the court" perspective. In terms of being able to compete while staying cap flexible it can be seen as successful.