Carlisle leading sentinel poll?!?

[Murphy13 185]

i just want to re-iterate that i like carlisle as a coach. just not for our team. i hope he has a resurgence somewhere. im sure he will. but we need a winner. i am sure he played a big part for the pistons in his first season, and i remember thinking he got shafted after his second season. after all they made progress. although, he had some stellar players. after all the hype that first year in indy...things went downhill fast and they werent all his fault i know, but he didnt lead that team. we need a coach that leads us to victories. there are better options out there. take away all the talent that he had on those teams and put him on a sub-five hundred team(aka magic) and he wouldnt have looked as good then.

[Skywise316 211]

We're sub-.500 due mostly to two big reasons:

 

1. Mid-season injuries

2. Brian Hill's lack of adjustments to his game plan or player rotations.

 

I point to what RIP CITY said:

 

"He is very good at making adjustments on the fly during a game, and is really good with calling timeouts before the opposing team gets on a big run, and breaking the other teams run up with it (Very underrated tactic in coaching, alot of coaches aren't good at making the decision promply)."

 

That's what Brian exactly wasn't. If we got Carlisle and stayed at least relatively healthy next season, I think most people would be surprised in the "sudden improvement" of the Orlando Magic.

 

The fact is that Brian stifled the growth of this team last year. The three most recent winning streaks in Magic history have come when Brian just "let the players play" and loosened the reigns a little bit, especially on the offensive end. Carlisle is the guy we wished Brian Hill could be, but was too stubborn to be. He could still keep that defensive mentality and team structure without running the players into the ground and making our players want to flee from the franchise. Add that to the fact that Rick Carlisle is actually a GREAT coach as opposed to a JOURNEYMAN coach?? We're talking about the kind of two year turnaround that Chicago just made.

 

In conclusion, we have the trump card. Dwight Howard. Everyone wants to coach Dwight Howard. Everyone wants to play with Dwight Howard. It's time to take advantage of that.

 

I won't be satisfied if our next head coach isn't either Rick Carlisle or Marc Iavaroni. And I won't be satisfied if our next "big" free agent isn't Gerald Wallace, Rashard Lewis, or Vince Carter. (all in that order)

 

It's time to shake off everything that's happened since T-Mac left, guys. Don't settle for being average!

 

In Otis I Trust!

[Mat 4]

quote:

Originally posted by Skywise316:

We're sub-.500 due mostly to two big reasons:

 

1. Mid-season injuries

2. Brian Hill's lack of adjustments to his game plan or player rotations.

 

I point to what RIP CITY said:

 

"He is very good at making adjustments on the fly during a game, and is really good with calling timeouts before the opposing team gets on a big run, and breaking the other teams run up with it (Very underrated tactic in coaching, alot of coaches aren't good at making the decision promply)."

 

That's what Brian exactly wasn't. If we got Carlisle and stayed at least relatively healthy next season, I think most people would be surprised in the "sudden improvement" of the Orlando Magic.

 

The fact is that Brian stifled the growth of this team last year. The three most recent winning streaks in Magic history have come when Brian just "let the players play" and loosened the reigns a little bit, especially on the offensive end. Carlisle is the guy we wished Brian Hill could be, but was too stubborn to be. He could still keep that defensive mentality and team structure without running the players into the ground and making our players want to flee from the franchise. Add that to the fact that Rick Carlisle is actually a GREAT coach as opposed to a JOURNEYMAN coach?? We're talking about the kind of two year turnaround that Chicago just made.

 

In conclusion, we have the trump card. Dwight Howard. Everyone wants to coach Dwight Howard. Everyone wants to play with Dwight Howard. It's time to take advantage of that.

 

I won't be satisfied if our next head coach isn't either Rick Carlisle or Marc Iavaroni. And I won't be satisfied if our next "big" free agent isn't Gerald Wallace, Rashard Lewis, or Vince Carter. (all in that order)

 

It's time to shake off everything that's happened since T-Mac left, guys. Don't settle for being average!

 

In Otis I Trust!

 

Nice post!

[JJ's Great Aunt 0]

Carlisle is much better than Murphy's year-by-year record chart would suggest.

 

When he came to Indiana, the Pacers were garbage. In one year, he had them at the best record in the NBA. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY could get out of the mess with Artest alive. Carlisle salvaged all he could, but he lost games as he lost his weapons!

 

Stephen Jackson (criminal)

Ron Artest (Lunatic)

Jamal Tinsely (criminal)

Jermain O'neal (selfish A-hole)

 

Reggie Miller (aging, eventually retired)

Jalen Rose (Carlisle came in right at the END of Jalen's stardom)

Jonathon Bender (worst 3rd pick in history)

Brad Miller (here today, gone the next)

 

I could go on and on. That's a darn good roster of players right? A team that could go 61-21 right? Well, what is Carlisle supposed to do when one or two players is taken off that list every year, and they are never REPLACED with a draft pick or free agent???

 

Carlisle got on board a sinking ship. He was the captain, but the ship was sinking no matter what he did!

[D-BoFats 5]

Murphy, if you don't post unless you know your facts are 100% correct, you must know that Iavaroni does have a ring.

[Murphy13 185]

as a head coach?

 

because thats what we were talking about here....

 

not a ring from playing 24 years ago...

[Murphy13 185]

quote:

Originally posted by JJ's Great Aunt:

Carlisle is much better than Murphy's year-by-year record chart would suggest.

 

When he came to Indiana, the Pacers were garbage. In one year, he had them at the best record in the NBA. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY could get out of the mess with Artest alive. Carlisle salvaged all he could, but he lost games as he lost his weapons!

 

Stephen Jackson (criminal)

Ron Artest (Lunatic)

Jamal Tinsely (criminal)

Jermain O'neal (selfish A-hole)

 

Reggie Miller (aging, eventually retired)

Jalen Rose (Carlisle came in right at the END of Jalen's stardom)

Jonathon Bender (worst 3rd pick in history)

Brad Miller (here today, gone the next)

 

I could go on and on. That's a darn good roster of players right? A team that could go 61-21 right? Well, what is Carlisle supposed to do when one or two players is taken off that list every year, and they are never REPLACED with a draft pick or free agent???

 

Carlisle got on board a sinking ship. He was the captain, but the ship was sinking no matter what he did!

 

i dont know if you remember or not, but that was the year they were slated to win the ECF. those players werent known for being the headcases that they are today, jermaine was then just being recognized as a superstar. they had tons of hype about them that year. and it went down hill from there, thats all i am saying. thats a bad track record for a coach.

[RIP CITY 0]

quote:

Originally posted by murphy13:

i dont post unless if i am sure that my facts are 100% correct.

 

Career Averages

 

REGULAR SEASON

YEAR TEAM WINS LOSSES PCT WINS

2001- Detroit 50 32 .610

2002- Detroit 50 32 .610

2003- Indiana 61 21 .744

2004- Indiana 44 38 .537

2005- Indiana 41 41 .500

2006- Indiana 35 47 .427

 

does that look like the trend you want from any coach? especially the one thats supposed to win championships? in 2003 indiana was hyped to be an eastern conference champ from the start. they failed, despite the good reg season statistics, which count for horseshoes and handgrenades(see dallas). and they got progressively worse and worse(see first post) that means his players lost faith in his philosophy at the least. it also means that he probably lost control of his players long before the firing. so, ghost...where are the facts that need to be checked??? i dont mind criticism, but atleast back it up with evidence.

 

The Pacers were a talented team when he took over, and yes they were expected for one or two years to win the East. But those players were also some of the hardest players in the NBA to conrtol, and they were even at that time as well. The season before Rick got there is when Ron Artest started to get bad and it just got worse every year.

 

In 2003-2004 they had a great regular season, and a very good Playoff run, going to the ECF. The real reason they lost was their players lack of control. In Game 6 in that Series Ron Artest blew it for them with his idiot play on Rip Hamilton, he elbows Rip in the face in the Final minutes in that game, and got a Tech in a 3 point game. Rip went off hitting the next two jumpers in a row right in Ronny's face, and sealed the game. Ron sparked something in Rip I had never seen before or since, he was determined to stick it to Ron for that elbow, and he did. They had control of the game for the most part up until that point, and it cost them. If they win that Game they force Game 7 in Indiana, and even as a Pistons fan, I'm not sure we win that game.

 

In 2004-2005, Ron Artest completely ruined that season with the brawl at the Palace, and even with all of the suspensions, injuries and turmoil of that season, the backups, and remaining starters carried that team to the Playoffs because he kept them focused, and did a GREAT Coaching job that year, not many Coaches could have salvaged that season under the circumstances.

 

In 2005-2006, they had tons of injuries, and problems with "The Cancer" Ron Artest, he was traded half way thru the season. They had his Trade hanging over them for half the season, and he was put on the in-active list by the owner because they could simply not live with Artest and his complete distruction of team chemistry. When they finally got the trade for Peja Stoakovic done they made the Playoffs, and got bounced. Most coaches could have never got that team to the Playoffs.

 

This year it was more the same distractions, and garbage from these idiot players that Larry Bird essembled, sure the players he has had are talented but they are a bad mix, and never got along. Even dumping the biggest cancer to ever grace an NBA floor (Artest) didn't help, there was still infighting between the players, and off-court problems with law.

 

This year was the first year in Rick Carlisle's Coaching career that he did not take his team to the Playoffs. He should never have taken the fall for what happened in Indiana they should have fired Larry Bird, for his poor management, and building a roster full of malcontents.

 

As someone else pointed out, they also lost valuable players every year that were never replaced. Plus as the seasons went on the effect that Ron Artest had on the team started to infect the whole locker room, because Artest is not just a cancer, he is the plague, he ruins the chemistry of every team he has been on in the NBA.

 

Larry Bird (GM), and players are to blame for the Indiana collapse without question. That team was full of malcontents and what he got out of them was frankly amazing as far as I'm concerned. Not many Coaches in NBA history could have dealt with that bunch of idiots on their roster and still won games.

 

quote:

we need a winner! not someone that has taken over strong clubs and failed to take them to the next level!!!

 

What Coach out there has won more than him?? Larry Brown, Jeff Van Gundy, but Larry is not a good fit for a young team, and JVG probably sits out a year after being fired.

 

Mark Ivoroni, has never won anything, he's never been a Head Coach, he might be the next big thing, but he hasn't proven to be a winner at all.

 

Stan Van Gundy is exactly what you just desribed in this post, a guy who took over a talented team and didn't get it done, all though I think he did a good job.

 

quote:

there are a lot of faux basketball guru's in this post.

 

I don't know what that is supposed to mean, but I know alot more about Rick Carlisle than most, he was the Pistons Coach for two years, and took this team from nothing to something in his very first year. Coach of the Year, and 50 wins in his first season as a NBA Head Coach. With a Pistons team that was not loaded with alot of talent at all. That was before we had Chauncey, Rip, Rasheed, or Tayshaun. We had Micheal Curry (horrible player offensively, decent defender), Chucky Atkins (simply not a starting PG, good back-up, but he was our starter that year), and an aging Cliff Robinson who was still a decent player at the time, but horrible rebounder for a PF.

 

He put alot of the toughness into this team, and the will to win, and to never quit. That's one of the things he is best at, no matter what adversity his teams go thru they never quit, despite some of the worst circumstances any Coach in NBA history has had to deal with (Indiana), and was a great Coach for a young Pistons team.

 

None of the Pistons success over the last 6 years would have happened without him, the guy is a winner, and a very good Coach. The best thing about him is that he is a PLAYOFF COACH. He makes the right adjustments in the Playoffs, there are tons of guys who can Coach and make the right decisions in the regular season (George Karl), but Playoff coaches are few and far between. I think he is without a doubt the best canidate out there for any team let alone the Magic.

[~O~ 565]

In Rip City..I Trust...You Go Boy!!

[D-BoFats 5]

RIP CITY, you write very convincingly. I like everything you've said about Rick Carlisle. Unlike a lot of people on this forum, you have the experience to back your "candidate" up. You've actually seen the man coach on a regular basis.

 

If you could, please, would you describe Carlisle's offensive style. What type of plays did he run? Which guys on our team would thrive in his offense? I really like that he's capable of making adjustments. It sounds like he's the polar opposite of Brian Hill in that regard.

[Murphy13 185]

i am not denying that he is a good coach...just not the type the magic need. the magic are going in a different direction than both detroit and indiana were headed. Macaroni fits the bill. and he will come at a better price, plus he was a player that won it all with philly. he knows what it takes to win, and all the suns players regard him highly, despite the fact that there isnt the best chemistry on that team either. some of your final comments cannot be proven as true statements. the pistons could very well have continued there ascension(sp.) especially given the state of the eastern conference. thats really irrelevant though.

 

as far as my faux bball guru statement, it was going out to people who would say simply that i needed to check my facts and then they didnt follow up with any input. i dont mind criticism, i just hate it when people dont think through what they say. nothing i have said has been incorrect. if you look back ripcity at the thinking that some of the posters we have here, they dont have the ability to look to the future. their logic is that we have been struggling long enough that its time for the future to be today. although i share their sentiments, it is making some people short-sighted. take for example the rashard lewis situation. he is a very good player and i like him. but some people want him because of his stats this year. even though i think he is improving the only safe way to judge a player is to assess his career stats. he is a career 16pts 6rebs guy. turk is nearly the same thing as lewis, in every category, his career avgs are 11 and 4, respectibly(sp.)...mostly in reserve time with the western conf powers and us. he carried our team offensively the last 3 weeks of the season, just like he did last year. so for someone to average just 5 pts more and 2 rebs more than turk despite getting more minutes means that he could get 12mil+ from us for the next 5 years??? his contract will be double that of turks, youll see. hell, ariza could average those numbers easy next year. a lot of people only look at one facet of bball and not the business side. if 35-40% of the fans on this board had their way, we would get lewis and lose all financial flexibility indefinately until the magic broke down the team and rebuilt(miami heat). the magic have an opportunity to build from within and get a less pricey free agent that fills a need. (we dont need a sf/pf!!!) i just hope the magic build for the future and not sacrifice the future for an overpriced fa of anysort. this is getting too long winded. i am done, sorry for knocking on carlisle, a lot of people like him. but he is not a run and gun coach. i bet you a lot of the fans criticizing me were also the ones complaining that we werent running enough during the season, saying that thats what our strength was. now they are calling for another defensive minded coach. our defense is fine! we need some offense. i am done with this one, this is too long of a post for me.

[~O~ 565]

I've witnessed over the past 2 years of Brian Hill being the coach of the Orlando Magic in which Hill simply allowed the opposition to rain in runs.

 

Its became obvious even more this past 06-07'. Listen. The entire forum doesn't want an imbecile lead this callow but capable in a season of 82 significant games! We want someone who doesn't allow those ludicrous 4-12 runs. Carlisle maybe the right precise coach to leash the kids(lol)..but isn't the accurate coach for an "up-tempo" mind set we are trying to achieve.

 

Did Rick Carlisle aide in devising the Detroit Pistons into a "half court" mindset? This is exactly what Indiana and Detroit offenses are currently.

 

I'm not implying the factor that the Magic are a halfcourt team....just saying that we are much better of a breaking team which Brian Hill's offense didn't allow the Magic players to do.

 

Carlisle may be a "superior" coach but can he make our up tempo players play at "his" pace?