When Rashard comes back, make the 5th starter a game time decision.

[gporter 5]

quote:

Originally posted by God hates Magic fans:

quote:

Originally posted by Faux Hawk:

quote:

Originally posted by God hates Magic fans:

What a stupid idea.

U R a stupid idea lol

Yeah go find out how many times gregg popovich or phil jackson would decide their starters on a game to game basis.........

You can't compare stan da man to those guys!

[God hates Magic fans 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Faux Hawk:

quote:

Originally posted by God hates Magic fans:

quote:

Originally posted by Magic Fins:

I agree with Faux Hawk 1,000,000,000 % on this. Why not use the versatility to our fullest advantage?

Tell me what elite teams do this? elite teams do not disrupt their rotation, they adjust DURING the game and additionally shouldn't the magic enforce THEIR will on opponents? this is great in fantasy land but not reality

 

Well Gee lets see the Lakers alternated between Ariza and Odom starting all year long. Even in the finals we did not know if they would start Odom or Ariza.

 

In fact go look at Ariza's starts and minutes played prior to the finals against the Magic.

 

Here is your regular season stats Mr. Know it all.

 

Odom - 32 starts.

Ariza - 20 starts.

Walton - 34 starts.

Bynum - 50 starts.

 

Unless your name was Bryant, Fisher or Gasol there was no promise you got to start any game for the Lakers. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it smart guy. They just won the championship and they adjusted their lineup based on what they thought would be to their best advantage. Seems like a pretty smart idea and I think our depth of talent is much better than theirs.

Yeah and look how they finished, Ariza started the last 20 games because the experiment wasn't working and all their playoff games

[Skywise316 211]

Stan said he did NOT want to do this. At least not game by game.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

quote:

Originally posted by God hates Magic fans:

quote:

Originally posted by Faux Hawk:

quote:

Originally posted by God hates Magic fans:

quote:

Originally posted by Magic Fins:

I agree with Faux Hawk 1,000,000,000 % on this. Why not use the versatility to our fullest advantage?

Tell me what elite teams do this? elite teams do not disrupt their rotation, they adjust DURING the game and additionally shouldn't the magic enforce THEIR will on opponents? this is great in fantasy land but not reality

 

Well Gee lets see the Lakers alternated between Ariza and Odom starting all year long. Even in the finals we did not know if they would start Odom or Ariza.

 

In fact go look at Ariza's starts and minutes played prior to the finals against the Magic.

 

Here is your regular season stats Mr. Know it all.

 

Odom - 32 starts.

Ariza - 20 starts.

Walton - 34 starts.

Bynum - 50 starts.

 

Unless your name was Bryant, Fisher or Gasol there was no promise you got to start any game for the Lakers. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it smart guy. They just won the championship and they adjusted their lineup based on what they thought would be to their best advantage. Seems like a pretty smart idea and I think our depth of talent is much better than theirs.

Yeah and look how they finished, Ariza started the last 20 games because the experiment wasn't working and all their playoff games

 

a better analysis would be who had the most minutes.

 

I think it benefits us to have the same starting 5 for as long as possible. When we play a team that warrants two bigs we play bass and anderson more and shift Lew to the SF more often. When we play teams and go small, bass and anderson play less than what they would if we played the other style.

 

Its not about who starts, its about who gets starter's minutes.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

quote:

Originally posted by Faux Hawk:

quote:

Originally posted by echo4papa:

Stan knows, well before game time, who we are playing, why keep the players in suspense as far as the starting line up?

I have no problem letting the players know, it is to keep the other team guessing because with Anderson in the lineup we play one way, with Barnes in the lineup we play a completely different way and then if you start Bass it is more traditional.

 

Here is my points further explained.

 

Start a line up of Nelson, Carter, Lewis, Anderson and Howard and you basically are playing the same style as last year with the exception of Nelson and Carter are the facilitators instead of Nelson and Hedo. I actually think it is better having Nelson and Carter facilitate because then you have your two deadliest 3 point shooters in Lewis and Anderson camping out on the 3 point line. When Hedo ran the offense if he drove you did not have but one deadly 3 point shooter in Lewis. Now all 4 can stroke it from deep. That is pretty scary.

 

Horrible idea. You know what that line up is missing, and why it's decidedly different than last year? Who is going to guard the opposing team's best player? You just took one of our better defending options (Pietrus or Barnes) out of the equation. Anderson is not as good as Lewis on defense at the PF position, and Lewis isn't as good as Pietrus or Barnes at the SF position. Stan keeps trying to get these guys to up their defensive intensity and your answer it to weaken the defense to get a better three point shooter onto the floor?

 

 

If you start a line up of Nelson, Carter, Barnes, Lewis & Howard that would dictate a lot of your offense would come from driving through the lane and post ups.

 

This is what I think our starting line up will settle into eventually. This gives us the ability to play the exact same style as last season. Nelson bringing the ball up the court, another option in Carter (used to be Hedo) to help initiate the offense, Lewis to spread the floor and make double teaming Dwight more difficult, and one guy who can hit the three and slash but who's main focus is defense. Carter and Nelson can run the pick and roll with Dwight, Lewis can draw out the PF away from the paint, and Barnes can spot up for an open three or be ready to slash to the basket. The only differences between this and last season are that you switch the secondary offensive initiation from the SF to the SG position, and your defensive specialist from SG to SF. Expect to see this a lot, along with healthy doses of the pick and roll, feeding Dwight in the post, and Carter getting some iso opportunities.

 

Starting a line up of Nelson, Carter, Lewis, Bass and Howard brings back a more traditional set like we had when Shaq was here because Bass can hit the jump shot at the top of the key like Ho Grant could. It opens up the lane enough for Howard, but Bass is still in a great position for the rebound. This type of offense only will work good for the Magic if the team has complete confidence to go to Howard the majority of the time and Howard can pass out of the post effectively.

 

This is what you will see when the shots aren't falling, and other teams are out rebounding us and getting physical with Dwight and Lewis. We can go big like this and match up better against Boston or the Lakers. This doesn't mean you will see Howard force fed in the post, you will still see lots of pick and roll, and plenty of Carter and Nelson trying to break down the defense with dribble penetration.

 

All 3 line ups give you a different look to this team.

[Faux Hawk 0]

quote:

Originally posted by God hates Magic fans:

quote:

Originally posted by Faux Hawk:

quote:

Originally posted by God hates Magic fans:

quote:

Originally posted by Magic Fins:

I agree with Faux Hawk 1,000,000,000 % on this. Why not use the versatility to our fullest advantage?

Tell me what elite teams do this? elite teams do not disrupt their rotation, they adjust DURING the game and additionally shouldn't the magic enforce THEIR will on opponents? this is great in fantasy land but not reality

 

Well Gee lets see the Lakers alternated between Ariza and Odom starting all year long. Even in the finals we did not know if they would start Odom or Ariza.

 

In fact go look at Ariza's starts and minutes played prior to the finals against the Magic.

 

Here is your regular season stats Mr. Know it all.

 

Odom - 32 starts.

Ariza - 20 starts.

Walton - 34 starts.

Bynum - 50 starts.

 

Unless your name was Bryant, Fisher or Gasol there was no promise you got to start any game for the Lakers. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it smart guy. They just won the championship and they adjusted their lineup based on what they thought would be to their best advantage. Seems like a pretty smart idea and I think our depth of talent is much better than theirs.

Yeah and look how they finished, Ariza started the last 20 games because the experiment wasn't working and all their playoff games

U R Stupid. I proved you wrong and that was just one team. Want me to prove it further??? GO look at the Nuggets and how they used JR Smith and the ex Duke SG. If they played the Lakers the Dukie got the start for defense against Kobe. Now for the Spurs, just go look how conisistent their lineup was if you were not Parker, Manu or Duncan. Sometimes they would start Kurt Thomas sometimes they would start Matt Bonner.

 

The point is is almost every ELITE team has one starter they can replace given potential matchups. In the Magic's case you could make an argument for Anderson, Bass, Barnes and Pietrus to start and some would even argue against a team like the Lakers you might want to start Gortat for defensive purposes.

 

Now with the offense being generated from the traditional PG & SG position, that opens up a lot of posibilities because you can choose to spread the floor with a line up that would have Anderson playing PF and Lewis at SF. You can collapse for the rebound and start Bass instead of Anderson. You can play more of a slashing stule and start Pietrus or Barnes, or you can play strictly for defense and start Gortat next to Dwight. Either way your 4 starters remain Nelson, Carter, Lewis and Howard. The 5th starter be it Anderson, Bass, Gortat, Pietrus or Barnes would then determine the style of play Stan feels give the Magic the best match ups and best chance to win.

[Faux Hawk 0]

quote:

Originally posted by echo4papa:

quote:

Originally posted by Faux Hawk:

quote:

Originally posted by echo4papa:

Stan knows, well before game time, who we are playing, why keep the players in suspense as far as the starting line up?

I have no problem letting the players know, it is to keep the other team guessing because with Anderson in the lineup we play one way, with Barnes in the lineup we play a completely different way and then if you start Bass it is more traditional.

 

Here is my points further explained.

 

Start a line up of Nelson, Carter, Lewis, Anderson and Howard and you basically are playing the same style as last year with the exception of Nelson and Carter are the facilitators instead of Nelson and Hedo. I actually think it is better having Nelson and Carter facilitate because then you have your two deadliest 3 point shooters in Lewis and Anderson camping out on the 3 point line. When Hedo ran the offense if he drove you did not have but one deadly 3 point shooter in Lewis. Now all 4 can stroke it from deep. That is pretty scary.

 

Horrible idea. You know what that line up is missing, and why it's decidedly different than last year? Who is going to guard the opposing team's best player? You just took one of our better defending options (Pietrus or Barnes) out of the equation. Anderson is not as good as Lewis on defense at the PF position, and Lewis isn't as good as Pietrus or Barnes at the SF position. Stan keeps trying to get these guys to up their defensive intensity and your answer it to weaken the defense to get a better three point shooter onto the floor?

 

 

If you start a line up of Nelson, Carter, Barnes, Lewis & Howard that would dictate a lot of your offense would come from driving through the lane and post ups.

 

This is what I think our starting line up will settle into eventually. This gives us the ability to play the exact same style as last season. Nelson bringing the ball up the court, another option in Carter (used to be Hedo) to help initiate the offense, Lewis to spread the floor and make double teaming Dwight more difficult, and one guy who can hit the three and slash but who's main focus is defense. Carter and Nelson can run the pick and roll with Dwight, Lewis can draw out the PF away from the paint, and Barnes can spot up for an open three or be ready to slash to the basket. The only differences between this and last season are that you switch the secondary offensive initiation from the SF to the SG position, and your defensive specialist from SG to SF. Expect to see this a lot, along with healthy doses of the pick and roll, feeding Dwight in the post, and Carter getting some iso opportunities.

 

Starting a line up of Nelson, Carter, Lewis, Bass and Howard brings back a more traditional set like we had when Shaq was here because Bass can hit the jump shot at the top of the key like Ho Grant could. It opens up the lane enough for Howard, but Bass is still in a great position for the rebound. This type of offense only will work good for the Magic if the team has complete confidence to go to Howard the majority of the time and Howard can pass out of the post effectively.

 

This is what you will see when the shots aren't falling, and other teams are out rebounding us and getting physical with Dwight and Lewis. We can go big like this and match up better against Boston or the Lakers. This doesn't mean you will see Howard force fed in the post, you will still see lots of pick and roll, and plenty of Carter and Nelson trying to break down the defense with dribble penetration.

 

All 3 line ups give you a different look to this team.

 

In all of your examples you would start a different lineup against the teams you used as an example. DO you think the best lineup against the C's would include Anderson? Most likely not. It would probably included either Bass or Barnes. My bet is it would be Bass if KG/Perk have been playing well and Barnes if not.

 

But go and look how we literally destroyed the Hornets when we used the line up of Nelson, Carter, Lewis, Anderson and Howard. They are a pretty good defensive team that would always give us problems with. They had no answer for the size and shooting we put on the floor. Every team we play is different. THey each create different opportunities for the Magic to capitalize on. Hence the reason for this thread. You have 4 main starters and your 5th guy is dependent on the team we play.

 

BTW you kid of made my point for me.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

quote:

Originally posted by Faux Hawk:

quote:

Originally posted by God hates Magic fans:

quote:

Originally posted by Magic Fins:

I agree with Faux Hawk 1,000,000,000 % on this. Why not use the versatility to our fullest advantage?

Tell me what elite teams do this? elite teams do not disrupt their rotation, they adjust DURING the game and additionally shouldn't the magic enforce THEIR will on opponents? this is great in fantasy land but not reality

 

Well Gee lets see the Lakers alternated between Ariza and Odom starting all year long. Even in the finals we did not know if they would start Odom or Ariza.

 

In fact go look at Ariza's starts and minutes played prior to the finals against the Magic.

 

Here is your regular season stats Mr. Know it all.

 

Odom - 32 starts.

Ariza - 20 starts.

Walton - 34 starts.

Bynum - 50 starts.

 

Unless your name was Bryant, Fisher or Gasol there was no promise you got to start any game for the Lakers. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it smart guy. They just won the championship and they adjusted their lineup based on what they thought would be to their best advantage. Seems like a pretty smart idea and I think our depth of talent is much better than theirs.

 

Horrible example. This switching the starting line up had more to do with Bynum's injury than Phil Jackson adjusting lineups based on match ups. After that happened, it was a struggle to find a combination that worked.

 

Radmanovic was initially in the starting line up, but he lost that job midway through December after the loss to the Kings. He was replaced by Walton until (if I rememebr corerctly) Walton was injured.

 

Bynum was a starter until his injury. Then Odom stepped up. Once that happened, there was some shifting around trying to find the best combination as Gasol moved up to center and Odum started at PF. It's not like Jackson was switching lineups all season based on match ups. Line ups were set until injuries happened, then he did what he needed to do in order to find the right combination of players to start and come off the bench.

 

It helps when the actual events support your theory, and not just the blind numbers.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

quote:

Originally posted by Faux Hawk:

quote:

Originally posted by echo4papa:

quote:

Originally posted by Faux Hawk:

quote:

Originally posted by echo4papa:

Stan knows, well before game time, who we are playing, why keep the players in suspense as far as the starting line up?

I have no problem letting the players know, it is to keep the other team guessing because with Anderson in the lineup we play one way, with Barnes in the lineup we play a completely different way and then if you start Bass it is more traditional.

 

Here is my points further explained.

 

Start a line up of Nelson, Carter, Lewis, Anderson and Howard and you basically are playing the same style as last year with the exception of Nelson and Carter are the facilitators instead of Nelson and Hedo. I actually think it is better having Nelson and Carter facilitate because then you have your two deadliest 3 point shooters in Lewis and Anderson camping out on the 3 point line. When Hedo ran the offense if he drove you did not have but one deadly 3 point shooter in Lewis. Now all 4 can stroke it from deep. That is pretty scary.

 

Horrible idea. You know what that line up is missing, and why it's decidedly different than last year? Who is going to guard the opposing team's best player? You just took one of our better defending options (Pietrus or Barnes) out of the equation. Anderson is not as good as Lewis on defense at the PF position, and Lewis isn't as good as Pietrus or Barnes at the SF position. Stan keeps trying to get these guys to up their defensive intensity and your answer it to weaken the defense to get a better three point shooter onto the floor?

 

 

If you start a line up of Nelson, Carter, Barnes, Lewis & Howard that would dictate a lot of your offense would come from driving through the lane and post ups.

 

This is what I think our starting line up will settle into eventually. This gives us the ability to play the exact same style as last season. Nelson bringing the ball up the court, another option in Carter (used to be Hedo) to help initiate the offense, Lewis to spread the floor and make double teaming Dwight more difficult, and one guy who can hit the three and slash but who's main focus is defense. Carter and Nelson can run the pick and roll with Dwight, Lewis can draw out the PF away from the paint, and Barnes can spot up for an open three or be ready to slash to the basket. The only differences between this and last season are that you switch the secondary offensive initiation from the SF to the SG position, and your defensive specialist from SG to SF. Expect to see this a lot, along with healthy doses of the pick and roll, feeding Dwight in the post, and Carter getting some iso opportunities.

 

Starting a line up of Nelson, Carter, Lewis, Bass and Howard brings back a more traditional set like we had when Shaq was here because Bass can hit the jump shot at the top of the key like Ho Grant could. It opens up the lane enough for Howard, but Bass is still in a great position for the rebound. This type of offense only will work good for the Magic if the team has complete confidence to go to Howard the majority of the time and Howard can pass out of the post effectively.

 

This is what you will see when the shots aren't falling, and other teams are out rebounding us and getting physical with Dwight and Lewis. We can go big like this and match up better against Boston or the Lakers. This doesn't mean you will see Howard force fed in the post, you will still see lots of pick and roll, and plenty of Carter and Nelson trying to break down the defense with dribble penetration.

 

All 3 line ups give you a different look to this team.

 

In all of your examples you would start a different lineup against the teams you used as an example. DO you think the best lineup against the C's would include Anderson? Most likely not. It would probably included either Bass or Barnes. My bet is it would be Bass if KG/Perk have been playing well and Barnes if not.

 

But go and look how we literally destroyed the Hornets when we used the line up of Nelson, Carter, Lewis, Anderson and Howard. They are a pretty good defensive team that would always give us problems with. They had no answer for the size and shooting we put on the floor. Every team we play is different. THey each create different opportunities for the Magic to capitalize on. Hence the reason for this thread. You have 4 main starters and your 5th guy is dependent on the team we play.

 

BTW you kid of made my point for me.

 

I didn't set those line ups, I explained them correctly instead of that hack job of an analysis you offered. As far as changing starting line ups to match other teams (which I never addressed but you seem to think I did), no, I don't think Stan changes our starting line ups or style of play to match up differently during the season. Our main style of play (with Dwight, Lewis, Barnes (or Pietrus), Carter, Nelson) will remain the same, but Stan will adjust things during the game as needed.

 

Playoffs are a different animal, as adjustments made during a game can carry over to the next (for the rest of the series even), and we all know Stan isn't afraid to stick with what works for the remainder of the series only to go back to our regular game to start the next series (see JJ vs Boston and (lack of)JJ vs Cleveland).

 

By the way, you sound kind of foolish trying to call a thiry five year old man "kid" as an internet insult. Nice try though, maybe you should spend some time improving on your analysis and your insults, they both could use the work.

[orlandomike 0]

Boys boys.

 

I dont think SVG is hiding the lineup to surprise the other team at the last second. I mean it takes them 2 seconds to send in someone else. Most important for this team right now with all the new players, and i think we are seeing it in the high turnovers, is continuity and familiarity with what the other guys do. I dont think a consistent rotation will be set until maybe 20 games in. All that said, it doesnt really matter who you start overall. If you start Lewis he may have an advantage on the offensive end but a disadvantage on the defensive end depending on who we are playing, so as that goes during the course of the game you switch in someone else. Bass is interesting because at the PF spot you give up the 3 but you get a consistnet 2 and good board play to help Dwight. Now if Lewis takes on average 8 3-point shots per game, say he makes 4 of them, your down 4 points production in that spot but what do you get in rebounds?

 

To me, you start Bass to wear down the starters then bring in your shooters later who are fresh as a general rule. So i would personally start Bass at PF bring in Anderson later at PF, keep lewis at SF and relieve him with Barnes or Petry dish maybe.