In support of Jameer - please comment if you support him and why?

[iamthequeenoftheuniverse 0]

because I love Jameer and his ambitions. He has skill and he will find his place. Jameer you are NBA. **** right? Yep!

[Buzzer Beater 0]

quote:

Originally posted by ball junkie:

quote:

Originally posted by D-BoFats:

Jameer Nelson can lead this team. He's capable of doing a lot better than he did last season. Thankfully, we'll get a new coach, and Jameer can return to his old form.

 

Are you gonna make him grow 5 inches? That still wouldn't get him to 6'3!(lol)

 

We need a point guard that can see the floor better and make good decisions.

 

Let Jameer come off the bench and play his shooting guard role that he does well.

 

I'm afraid Otis love affair with Jameer(since he drafted him) is going to hurt us.

 

I honestly like Carlos better. And more so in an up-tempo game. I'm still seeing our turnovers from last year in my nightmares! Over and over!!

 

Totally agree! But again, no carlos no jameer

we need a better PG.

[Knappy 0]

quote:

Originally posted by jonathan:

quote:

Originally posted by ibonedteribell:

Its clear from Otis words on firing Hill, that he wants the new coach to work with Jameer as his PG, placing the blame on Brian for his underperformance. This reasoning could be true yet it also applies to every player in the team be it PG or not. The question is how Jameer will perform comparatively with other PG's(Diener, Arroyo, Dooling or a new face) with the new coaching style. Is the new coach going to have real muscle and be able to play his best option no matter what Otis thinks its best? We are going to have to wait to see who goes and comes to get the final answer to this one.

 

Ibone, you are right on target and I could'nt say it better.But I got to add somethimg to that equation without starting a fight with some guys here.I dont know if you know that Carlos and some other players were behind doors claiming for an increase playing time and this is ok since that happened with everybody in the nba or any other league.The fact of matter is when Carlos came to Orlando a lot of people saw carlos as an option to the starting spot because his experience, court vision and good Asts/to ratio. The media was so excited specialy the latin media and I think Carlos was taking the oportunity not just to get more playing time but to prove he can be the starter pg in a near future.

Now about your comment on Otis wanting jameer for the starting spot it's clear.Several times B.Hill was asked for the media if Carlos and Darko deserved the starting spots because of how well Carlos and Darko finished 2005-2006 season with magics and how well he was doing in fiba's world championship were Carlos was called the best P/G and what did B.Hill answered ? B.Hill said all positions will be decided at the preseason end, now its clear B.Hill opened the door for Carlos and Darko starting spots and I know for sure they fought the spots in preseason.

But what happeneded in preseason was Carlos was at his best and Jameer was strugling (to many t/o and bad shooting ) plus he sufered a head collition with Howard.Then when season started Carlos was red hot and Jameer continued strugling and the media and fans were asking for Carlos as starter but what happened ? Carlos minutes were mysteriously cut from 24-28min. to 14-18 mins.

 

We all know Carlos body language said something was wrong with him and his game changed.Was he dessapointed ? He got his reasons... but Otis is the main reason B.Hill keept Nelson on floor even when he was'nt playing well.

Now the question is "will Otis change his mind with a new coach" ? I dont think so, Otis looks like he is Jameer best friend, even more than Howard.

It is fair for a friend you know ... but not for a basketball player.

 

Sorry, but you are delusional - Carlos had a horrible, horrible season. Jameer had a terrible season as well - Carlos went through about a 30 game stretch where he shot less than 30% from the field. I know you love Carlos, but stop saying he is playing great - neither of them played well last year and I blame BHill's system - Carlos in my opinion was much worse than Jameer - did you watch the play and look I am saying Jameer played poorly also.

 

Just stop the Carlos is Michael Jordan and Jameer is Gerald Sasser - you lose credibility. Both Jameer and Carlos were forced to be selfish if that is what you want to call it in BHills system - after Dwight kicked it back out with 6 seconds to go on the shot clock they had to shoot.

 

I just hope Carlos gets traded so we don't have to listen to all the Carlos fans bash Jameer the first good game Carlos has or the first bad game Jameer has.

 

Carlos was awful last year - irrespective of Nelson. I do blame BHill for that, but Carlos had a bad year - he could be much better under a new coach and system, but don't tell me Carlos played great last year - he didn't.

[Knappy 0]

quote:

Originally posted by D-BoFats:

I don't think it's fair to judge Jameer based on one bad season. I know that sounds ridiculous, but let's look at it...

 

Brian Hill was known (****, I love the past tense) for his controlling attitude. He micromanaged our team to death. Every single play, Jameer had to look over his shoulder at Brian Hill. He had no control over the offense. There's not a point guard in the NBA that can thrive in such a situation.

 

How do I know Jameer can be better in a new offense? At the end of the '05-06 season, Jameer had that control. Because of all the new players, Ex-Magic Coach Brian Hill (I love it) allowed his players to play freely. Not coincidentally, Jameer played his best basketball. If I remember correctly, Jameer was averaging about 18 PPG, 6 APG, and 3 RPG during our little run. And we were winning.

 

A little off-topic, but the same can be said for Hedo Turkoglu. He was playing his best basketball in a free offense. Brian Hill ruined a lot of players' seasons this year. I don't think it's fair to hold it against them, especially since we've seen what they're capable of once they're cut loose of Brian's spell.

 

Those last 22 games - I believe he averaged 22 pts. per game and shot 53% from the field - I don't know on assists, but his turnovers were low as well.

 

Good post - I agree and it drove me nuts watching Brian scream out something on every play - I just wanted Brian to shut up and leave them alone.

[Knappy 0]

quote:

Originally posted by jonathan:

Now with a new coach comming soon I think the best thing to do is leting our point gards fighting the starting spot in the preseason.Thats the main issue to resolve after Darko contract.

 

I hope all of them receive the same opportunity to prove themselves before anyone been traded . My thoughts are Carlos will win the spot not for his ppg ability but for his play making and asts/to ratio.

 

My order of PGs is - Jameer, then Dooling the Arroyo or Diener - if Jameer didn't start I'd rather see Dooling - Arroyo just do it for me as a starter - he can be an adequate backup, but I'd rather see us trade him as he isn't that tall either and we already have Jameer who is short, but this thread was supposed to be about Jameer.

 

I guess that is not possible as long as Arroyo is on this team. No onslaught of Dooling supporters are screaming about Dooling who played a lot better than Arroyo last season.

[Knappy 0]

quote:

Originally posted by ball junkie:

Here's the question management is probably wrestling with as we speak.

 

I agree that Jameer is better suited for a more up-tempo offense. But(and this is important) you still have to be able to execute in the halfcourt offense!

 

You can get by with it in the regular season. Look at the playoffs right now. The teams left are the ones who play great defense and execute in the halfcourt. Sooner or later you have to be able to play a halfcourt game cause in the playoffs it happens that way "every" year. If Jameer struggles running a halfcourt offense and we change our system to suit his needs for the whole regular season, what do you think will happen come playoff time?

 

And Smack, I disagree. I don't think it should matter what system you run, up-tempo or halfcourt if you are the point guard you still have to execute, you still have to make smart decisions and you still need to know when to get your teammates involved. Saying Jameer was fustrated and making excuses for his behavior by blaming it on Brian Hill is a copout. Jameer has no one to blame for his performance other than Jameer himself.

 

Junkie I totally disagree - see how Steve Nash would do if he had to run a slow court game and pass the ball around three times at the top of the key and feed Amare 60 to 70% of the time in the same spot and all his other players told not to take a quick shot, not to run, etc. He wouldn't be as good.

 

And Phoenix was very close to getting past San Antonio - they can contend for the championship. I picked San Antonio and Detroit for the finals before the playoffs started, but I thought that Phoenix had a shot to upset.

 

Dallas is more of a half court team and they got knocked out earlier in the playoffs. Golden State beat them a running team.

 

I think it is important to be able to execute, but running is working - you have to play defense and uptempo is the way the teams should play - do you need to run like Phoenix or GS - I don't think so, but saying Brian Hill did not affect our point guards is ridiculous - I think - I don't believe you can truly believe that statement.

 

We are on opposite sides about Jameer - Carlos was awful last season as well and I blame that mostly on BHill as well. I will say things that are unpopular, but I totally disagree with the statement that Brian Hill had no effect on the players play.

 

Frustration does drive some players crazy and Brian frustrated them beyond measure - you'll just have to see when they get to play differently next season.

 

And someone please drag up this thread so we can rediscuss it when Jameer is thriving.

[D-BoFats 5]

Knappy, what do you think about my prediction for Jameer next season?

 

16 PPG

7 APG

4 RPG

 

I'm calling it right now. Some of you guys will regret you wanted to get rid of Jameer. He's a better player than you think.

[Knappy 0]

quote:

Originally posted by D-BoFats:

Knappy, what do you think about my prediction for Jameer next season?

 

16 PPG

7 APG

4 RPG

 

I'm calling it right now. Some of you guys will regret you wanted to get rid of Jameer. He's a better player than you think.

 

I'm glad someone is on the same page as me - we may be wrong, but I don't think so. It looks like the Magic will pick up a good player so those averages may be about right. I was thinking that he could have averaged over 20 a game last season, but he was around 13 or 14, but next season with a good wing player he probably will be around 16 or 18 points and a new offense will allow others to score if we don't have to setup Dwight in that stagnant offense everytime - Dwight's average should go up with a varied offense.

 

I think his assists will go up as well with BHill gone. I think you will be very close with those predictions. And, some games he'll light it up.

[jonathan 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Knappy:

quote:

Originally posted by jonathan:

quote:

Originally posted by ibonedteribell:

Its clear from Otis words on firing Hill, that he wants the new coach to work with Jameer as his PG, placing the blame on Brian for his underperformance. This reasoning could be true yet it also applies to every player in the team be it PG or not. The question is how Jameer will perform comparatively with other PG's(Diener, Arroyo, Dooling or a new face) with the new coaching style. Is the new coach going to have real muscle and be able to play his best option no matter what Otis thinks its best? We are going to have to wait to see who goes and comes to get the final answer to this one.

 

Ibone, you are right on target and I could'nt say it better.But I got to add somethimg to that equation without starting a fight with some guys here.I dont know if you know that Carlos and some other players were behind doors claiming for an increase playing time and this is ok since that happened with everybody in the nba or any other league.The fact of matter is when Carlos came to Orlando a lot of people saw carlos as an option to the starting spot because his experience, court vision and good Asts/to ratio. The media was so excited specialy the latin media and I think Carlos was taking the oportunity not just to get more playing time but to prove he can be the starter pg in a near future.

Now about your comment on Otis wanting jameer for the starting spot it's clear.Several times B.Hill was asked for the media if Carlos and Darko deserved the starting spots because of how well Carlos and Darko finished 2005-2006 season with magics and how well he was doing in fiba's world championship were Carlos was called the best P/G and what did B.Hill answered ? B.Hill said all positions will be decided at the preseason end, now its clear B.Hill opened the door for Carlos and Darko starting spots and I know for sure they fought the spots in preseason.

But what happeneded in preseason was Carlos was at his best and Jameer was strugling (to many t/o and bad shooting ) plus he sufered a head collition with Howard.Then when season started Carlos was red hot and Jameer continued strugling and the media and fans were asking for Carlos as starter but what happened ? Carlos minutes were mysteriously cut from 24-28min. to 14-18 mins.

 

We all know Carlos body language said something was wrong with him and his game changed.Was he dessapointed ? He got his reasons... but Otis is the main reason B.Hill keept Nelson on floor even when he was'nt playing well.

Now the question is "will Otis change his mind with a new coach" ? I dont think so, Otis looks like he is Jameer best friend, even more than Howard.

It is fair for a friend you know ... but not for a basketball player.

 

Sorry, but you are delusional - Carlos had a horrible, horrible season. Jameer had a terrible season as well - Carlos went through about a 30 game stretch where he shot less than 30% from the field. I know you love Carlos, but stop saying he is playing great - neither of them played well last year and I blame BHill's system - Carlos in my opinion was much worse than Jameer - did you watch the play and look I am saying Jameer played poorly also.

 

Just stop the Carlos is Michael Jordan and Jameer is Gerald Sasser - you lose credibility. Both Jameer and Carlos were forced to be selfish if that is what you want to call it in BHills system - after Dwight kicked it back out with 6 seconds to go on the shot clock they had to shoot.

 

I just hope Carlos gets traded so we don't have to listen to all the Carlos fans bash Jameer the first good game Carlos has or the first bad game Jameer has.

 

Carlos was awful last year - irrespective of Nelson. I do blame BHill for that, but Carlos had a bad year - he could be much better under a new coach and system, but don't tell me Carlos played great last year - he didn't.

 

Let me tell you something my friend,am I delutional ? no way in the world but maybe thats your case since you had big expectations on Jameer for this season. Now about Arroyos 30 game strech were he shot under 30% please put here his stats (those 30 strech games under 30% shooting)here so we all can see them. And you know what ? even if it was true, Carlos did end the season with a .425% fg against Jameers .429fg. any diference ? Jameer sucks the same way Carlos did.

Before I put an end to this I want you to check Carlos stats ( the most important stats for pgs are asts,t/o,pts plus asts/to ratio) x minutes played and then please check out Jameer stats. And remenber Carlos asts went down at the season end because B.Hill cut his minutes to 10 -14 min/game.And what about court vision and ball movement ? Ha ha,dont make me cry on this !

The numbers will make you wrong, Oh I forgot... Who said here Carlos was M.J. or Jameer is Gerald Sasser ? Maybe when you watch Jameer plays then Gerald sasser comes to your mind and if Magics have 10 pgs I know Carlos is number 11 on your list, so no surprice here !

End of story...

[Knappy 0]

quote:

Originally posted by jonathan:

quote:

Originally posted by Knappy:

quote:

Originally posted by jonathan:

quote:

Originally posted by ibonedteribell:

Its clear from Otis words on firing Hill, that he wants the new coach to work with Jameer as his PG, placing the blame on Brian for his underperformance. This reasoning could be true yet it also applies to every player in the team be it PG or not. The question is how Jameer will perform comparatively with other PG's(Diener, Arroyo, Dooling or a new face) with the new coaching style. Is the new coach going to have real muscle and be able to play his best option no matter what Otis thinks its best? We are going to have to wait to see who goes and comes to get the final answer to this one.

 

Ibone, you are right on target and I could'nt say it better.But I got to add somethimg to that equation without starting a fight with some guys here.I dont know if you know that Carlos and some other players were behind doors claiming for an increase playing time and this is ok since that happened with everybody in the nba or any other league.The fact of matter is when Carlos came to Orlando a lot of people saw carlos as an option to the starting spot because his experience, court vision and good Asts/to ratio. The media was so excited specialy the latin media and I think Carlos was taking the oportunity not just to get more playing time but to prove he can be the starter pg in a near future.

Now about your comment on Otis wanting jameer for the starting spot it's clear.Several times B.Hill was asked for the media if Carlos and Darko deserved the starting spots because of how well Carlos and Darko finished 2005-2006 season with magics and how well he was doing in fiba's world championship were Carlos was called the best P/G and what did B.Hill answered ? B.Hill said all positions will be decided at the preseason end, now its clear B.Hill opened the door for Carlos and Darko starting spots and I know for sure they fought the spots in preseason.

But what happeneded in preseason was Carlos was at his best and Jameer was strugling (to many t/o and bad shooting ) plus he sufered a head collition with Howard.Then when season started Carlos was red hot and Jameer continued strugling and the media and fans were asking for Carlos as starter but what happened ? Carlos minutes were mysteriously cut from 24-28min. to 14-18 mins.

 

We all know Carlos body language said something was wrong with him and his game changed.Was he dessapointed ? He got his reasons... but Otis is the main reason B.Hill keept Nelson on floor even when he was'nt playing well.

Now the question is "will Otis change his mind with a new coach" ? I dont think so, Otis looks like he is Jameer best friend, even more than Howard.

It is fair for a friend you know ... but not for a basketball player.

 

Sorry, but you are delusional - Carlos had a horrible, horrible season. Jameer had a terrible season as well - Carlos went through about a 30 game stretch where he shot less than 30% from the field. I know you love Carlos, but stop saying he is playing great - neither of them played well last year and I blame BHill's system - Carlos in my opinion was much worse than Jameer - did you watch the play and look I am saying Jameer played poorly also.

 

Just stop the Carlos is Michael Jordan and Jameer is Gerald Sasser - you lose credibility. Both Jameer and Carlos were forced to be selfish if that is what you want to call it in BHills system - after Dwight kicked it back out with 6 seconds to go on the shot clock they had to shoot.

 

I just hope Carlos gets traded so we don't have to listen to all the Carlos fans bash Jameer the first good game Carlos has or the first bad game Jameer has.

 

Carlos was awful last year - irrespective of Nelson. I do blame BHill for that, but Carlos had a bad year - he could be much better under a new coach and system, but don't tell me Carlos played great last year - he didn't.

 

Let me tell you something my friend,am I delutional ? no way in the world but maybe thats your case since you had big expectations on Jameer for this season. Now about Arroyos 30 game strech were he shot under 30% please put here his stats (those 30 strech games under 30% shooting)here so we all can see them. And you know what ? even if it was true, Carlos did end the season with a .425% fg against Jameers .429fg. any diference ? Jameer sucks the same way Carlos did.

Before I put an end to this I want you to check Carlos stats ( the most important stats for pgs are asts,t/o,pts plus asts/to ratio) x minutes played and then please check out Jameer stats. And remenber Carlos asts went down at the season end because B.Hill cut his minutes to 10 -14 min/game.And what about court vision and ball movement ? Ha ha,dont make me cry on this !

The numbers will make you wrong, Oh I forgot... Who said here Carlos was M.J. or Jameer is Gerald Sasser ? Maybe when you watch Jameer plays then Gerald sasser comes to your mind and if Magics have 10 pgs I know Carlos is number 11 on your list, so no surprice here !

End of story...

 

The point I was trying to make is that both point guards suffered under Brian Hill. Those that say Carlos was great last year are wrong - he had a bad season - and you know what so did Jameer - they both had bad seasons. Saying Carlos out played Jameer and was much better is a falacy - Carlos played just as bad and I blame for the most part Brian Hill.

 

I rate Jameer ahead of Carlos, but many disagree with that, but I strongly disagree that Carlos was very solid last year and Jameer was terrible - Jameer looked better than Carlos last year, but they both looked bad.

 

For those, and maybe you aren't saying it, that say Carlos was great last year and Jameer sucked - well Carlos was pretty bad. Carlos went through a terrible stretch where he shot under 30% and it may have been closer to 25% - probably at least 15 games maybe 20 or even 25 games. I am not going to go through the stats and put them together, but he went through a terrible stretch and someone may be willing to pull the stats for us.

 

The point is if someone is saying Carlos was great last year - he wasn't.

 

And, I blame the poor play of both Carlos and Jameer on Brian Hill. I rate Jameer higher than Carlos - a fair amount higher - we'll see next season.

[The Solution 0]

Sorry Knappy, towards the end of the season I though Arroyo played the better basketball, but I agree with wanting to see these guys play with a new coach and a more up tempo offensive scheme.

[The Ghost of John Gabriel 0]

Jameer and Carlos are both individual players playing a team game. Neither is very good at getting teammates the ball in scoring position and neither is very good at creating scoring opportunities for their teammates. To make matters worse, neither likes to push the ball, and both exhibit very poor shot selection. Both are at their best when they are the focal point of the offense and neither is good enough to be that on this level.

 

The ONLY difference between Jameer and Carlos last season was that Jameer was given every opportunity to play through his mistakes and poor play.

 

Several players on this team can point a finger at Brian Hill for their struggles last season, but neither of these two can IMO.

 

I don't think Carlos is better than Jameer. I simply felt the best way to get 48 minutes out of these two was to have Carlos start and Jameer come off the bench.

 

No matter what the Magic do with Jameer, he needs to be paired with a better defender. No good team can afford to have 48 minutes of poor defensive play from their PG and until Jameer proves me wrong, I don't think he's a quality NBA starting PG. I do think he's a very solid scorer off the bench where he can be the focal point of the offense for small stretches.

 

I like aspects of Arroyo's game, but the bottom line is that the Magic can't afford to move forward with these two, and Arroyo is the odd man out.