What do we do with Hedo now?

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by jackie69:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

I find it fascinating that people would apparently rather judge a player based on the offensive half of 4 playoff games than the entire preceding season.

 

Judging a player based entirely on a few playoff games is how players like Jerome James and Daniel Gibson got paid way more than they were worth.

F***k off and admit it you b****rd. You know he is the only one that can save our asses from these series. Everybody who understands a little bit of basketball is admiring him and his versatility (watch post game conferences of Doc Rivers and Mike Brown) but some stubborn idiots like you are afraid of admitting the fact that they are wrong. You are just a loser...

 

What am I admitting? That he's played well in his last 3 games? I clearly implied that already. I did that in my first post. You quoted it. It was right there. It was also, as I said, completely irrelevant to my point.

 

If Adonal Foyle averaged 20/10 in the rest of the playoffs, he wouldn't deserve a big contract because all prior evidence suggests that Adonal Foyle was playing above his talent level and will regress back to the mean. That's what "averages" are. It's also why teams that give players big contracts just because of a few great playoff games will inevitably be upset they did so. It did with Boobie Gibson. It did with Luol Deng. It did with pretty much every other player that's ever gotten a contract because of a playoff series before.

 

When determining what a player deserves, you have to examine what the player IS. Turk just had the second best year of his career, averaging 16.8/5.3/4.9 on woeful percentages while serving as a defensive sieve against most opposing 3s. These are what we call "facts".

 

But ok, you think the playoffs are more of an indication of who Turk is than the regular season. Fine.

 

In the playoffs, Turk is averaging 14.7/3.7/5 on slightly less woeful percentages and while serving as a complete defensive sieve on whomever he's guarding.

 

So ok: your argument is that a 14.7/3.7/5 player deserves...what exactly? Rafer Alston makes 4.9m this year, and his 12/2.4/4.7 on only mildly worse percentages in 5 fewer minutes has been complained about constantly(and rightfully so, since he's played like crap). And you think 2.7 more pts, 1.3 more rebs and .3 more asts in 5 more minutes is worth an extra 5m a year for a 30 year old player whose averages dropped across the board this year from last?

 

Now, I'm feeling nice so I won't report you for the swearing. But seriously: if you're going to ask if others are 15, it's probably a good idea to not swear at someone for disagreeing with you.

[erenos 0]

Hedo haters.. ehehe you must be angry with heds last performances... This guy is our engine.. Hedo will stay in orlando ..and you(hedo haters dom,kramer(assist are nothing bla bla) ...etc.like these guys) must keep in your mind f...in statistics for next season...

[jackie69 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by jackie69:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

I find it fascinating that people would apparently rather judge a player based on the offensive half of 4 playoff games than the entire preceding season.

 

Judging a player based entirely on a few playoff games is how players like Jerome James and Daniel Gibson got paid way more than they were worth.

F***k off and admit it you b****rd. You know he is the only one that can save our asses from these series. Everybody who understands a little bit of basketball is admiring him and his versatility (watch post game conferences of Doc Rivers and Mike Brown) but some stubborn idiots like you are afraid of admitting the fact that they are wrong. You are just a loser...

 

What am I admitting? That he's played well in his last 3 games? I clearly implied that already. I did that in my first post. You quoted it. It was right there. It was also, as I said, completely irrelevant to my point.

 

If Adonal Foyle averaged 20/10 in the rest of the playoffs, he wouldn't deserve a big contract because all prior evidence suggests that Adonal Foyle was playing above his talent level and will regress back to the mean. That's what "averages" are. It's also why teams that give players big contracts just because of a few great playoff games will inevitably be upset they did so. It did with Boobie Gibson. It did with Luol Deng. It did with pretty much every other player that's ever gotten a contract because of a playoff series before.

 

When determining what a player deserves, you have to examine what the player IS. Turk just had the second best year of his career, averaging 16.8/5.3/4.9 on woeful percentages while serving as a defensive sieve against most opposing 3s. These are what we call "facts".

 

But ok, you think the playoffs are more of an indication of who Turk is than the regular season. Fine.

 

In the playoffs, Turk is averaging 14.7/3.7/5 on slightly less woeful percentages and while serving as a complete defensive sieve on whomever he's guarding.

 

So ok: your argument is that a 14.7/3.7/5 player deserves...what exactly? Rafer Alston makes 4.9m this year, and his 12/2.4/4.7 on only mildly worse percentages in 5 fewer minutes has been complained about constantly(and rightfully so, since he's played like crap). And you think 2.7 more pts, 1.3 more rebs and .3 more asts in 5 more minutes is worth an extra 5m a year for a 30 year old player whose averages dropped across the board this year from last?

 

Now, I'm feeling nice so I won't report you for the swearing. But seriously: if you're going to ask if others are 15, it's probably a good idea to not swear at someone for disagreeing with you.

I am not here to lobby for Hedo`s contract. I am just sick of you guys that are keeping on blaming Hedo when he has an off night but refrain from giving him credit when he leads the team. 16.8/5.3/4.9 regular season stats are bad, right? And then, for the post season just look at the last 3 games and the maturity he has been showing in terms of runnin the offense. Then, regarding the defense who has he been guarding during the series? Igudala, Paul Pierce and now Lebron James. Do you think that Rashard would do a better job on these guys? Come on, just be mature. And are you comparing Rafer to Hedo? Woww. Just wowww....

[iddelen 7]

quote:

Originally posted by Lewis4thewin:

The biggest problem with giving him a new deal is the fact he is likely to regress towards his career average. This stuff happens all the time. players play average, improve drastically, play 2 or 3 seasons at that level, then regress back down to average.

NBA is not (always) about getting what you're paying for, year for year. This team looks like it can win a championship in a few years time, even in this season.

 

Magic has made it to the ECF this season and hopefully will even achieve more. The chances are good that they can even be a better team next year with an improved Dwight and CLee and a healthy Jameer. But if you move one of the major pieces - and I hope even you can agree that Hedo is one of the major pieces in this team - you take a risk as a GM. The new piece might fit in, even making you a better team than before or it can pull you down, down deep. So why take a risk, if your goal is a ring or two within the next four five years. If the price for that is having a player regressing back down to average in his retirement year, well that's the way how things work in NBA. According to your logic, we shouldn't give Shard a long-term contract, cause probably in three years time his numbers will be going down too. Getting closer to his retirement he even will be making more money than currently, like many other NBA players. This is how it works.

 

If I were Otis, I'd try to keep Hedo not only for what he has done, but also for what Magic can achieve, with Hedo on the roster.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by jackie69:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by jackie69:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

I find it fascinating that people would apparently rather judge a player based on the offensive half of 4 playoff games than the entire preceding season.

 

Judging a player based entirely on a few playoff games is how players like Jerome James and Daniel Gibson got paid way more than they were worth.

F***k off and admit it you b****rd. You know he is the only one that can save our asses from these series. Everybody who understands a little bit of basketball is admiring him and his versatility (watch post game conferences of Doc Rivers and Mike Brown) but some stubborn idiots like you are afraid of admitting the fact that they are wrong. You are just a loser...

 

What am I admitting? That he's played well in his last 3 games? I clearly implied that already. I did that in my first post. You quoted it. It was right there. It was also, as I said, completely irrelevant to my point.

 

If Adonal Foyle averaged 20/10 in the rest of the playoffs, he wouldn't deserve a big contract because all prior evidence suggests that Adonal Foyle was playing above his talent level and will regress back to the mean. That's what "averages" are. It's also why teams that give players big contracts just because of a few great playoff games will inevitably be upset they did so. It did with Boobie Gibson. It did with Luol Deng. It did with pretty much every other player that's ever gotten a contract because of a playoff series before.

 

When determining what a player deserves, you have to examine what the player IS. Turk just had the second best year of his career, averaging 16.8/5.3/4.9 on woeful percentages while serving as a defensive sieve against most opposing 3s. These are what we call "facts".

 

But ok, you think the playoffs are more of an indication of who Turk is than the regular season. Fine.

 

In the playoffs, Turk is averaging 14.7/3.7/5 on slightly less woeful percentages and while serving as a complete defensive sieve on whomever he's guarding.

 

So ok: your argument is that a 14.7/3.7/5 player deserves...what exactly? Rafer Alston makes 4.9m this year, and his 12/2.4/4.7 on only mildly worse percentages in 5 fewer minutes has been complained about constantly(and rightfully so, since he's played like crap). And you think 2.7 more pts, 1.3 more rebs and .3 more asts in 5 more minutes is worth an extra 5m a year for a 30 year old player whose averages dropped across the board this year from last?

 

Now, I'm feeling nice so I won't report you for the swearing. But seriously: if you're going to ask if others are 15, it's probably a good idea to not swear at someone for disagreeing with you.

I am not here to lobby for Hedo`s contract. Aren't you a terrible liar.

I am just sick of you guys that are keeping on blaming Hedo when he has an off night but refrain from giving him credit when he leads the team. Funny. I'm sick of people like you who show up everytime Hedo manages to string together a couple of solid games and act like that's what he always does, and then watching you get indignant whenever I prove that, no really, this is the exception and that usually Hedo has been mediocre at best this season. I complimented him for the last 3 games in my first post in this thread. You know, the one you responded to with "**** you"? The fact that I am capable of basic reasoning and realize that, and I'll say this slow for you:

Hedo

has

proven

that

he's

not

a

consistently

reliable

player,

doesn't make me a hater, a racist, immature, or any other completely ridiculous insult you want to hurl at me. I could care less if Hedo plays well the rest of the playoffs, because here's the bottom line: Hedo still won't be worth anything close to what he's asking for. This should be obvious to anyone with basic reasoning.

 

16.8/5.3/4.9 regular season stats are bad, right? No, they're above average numbers. But you've conveniently ignored both efficiency and defense. Efficiency is important because scoring 30 points a game isnt impressive if you need 26 shots to do so(see Jerry Stackhouse's 30ppg season as an example), and defense is important because it's half the **** game.

 

And then, for the post season just look at the last 3 games and the maturity he has been showing in terms of runnin the offense. Did you not bother reading the part of my original post where I said judging a player by 3 games and ignoring the preceding 10+ is retarded, or are you just completely lacking in basic reading comprehension? You're arguing my point for me, and you seem completely oblivious to it.

 

Then, regarding the defense who has he been guarding during the series? Igudala, Paul Pierce and now Lebron James. Do you think that Rashard would do a better job on these guys? Yes. I also think that Turk's failure to keep track of anyone off the ball, including such offensive heavyweights as Brian Scalabrine, Delonte West and Wally Szerbiak is worth noting. You ignore it, of course, because it makes Hedo look like a bad defensive player without the pesky "He's guarding superstars" excuse.

Come on, just be mature. Says the person who called me a ******* and said "**** you" to me. Strong work.

 

And are you comparing Rafer to Hedo? Woww. Just wowww....Yeah, I know right. Heaven forbid I compare one MLE offensive player who shoots bad percentages and can't play defense to another. Christ, tearing you Hedo fans' arguments apart is like LOOKING at fish in a barrel.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

quote:

Originally posted by iddelen:

quote:

Originally posted by Lewis4thewin:

The biggest problem with giving him a new deal is the fact he is likely to regress towards his career average. This stuff happens all the time. players play average, improve drastically, play 2 or 3 seasons at that level, then regress back down to average.

NBA is not (always) about getting what you're paying for, year for year. This team looks like it can win a championship in a few years time, even in this season.

 

Magic has made it to the ECF this season and hopefully will even achieve more. The chances are good that they can even be a better team next year with an improved Dwight and CLee and a healthy Jameer. But if you move one of the major pieces - and I hope even you can agree that Hedo is one of the major pieces in this team - you take a risk as a GM. The new piece might fit in, even making you a better team than before or it can pull you down, down deep. So why take a risk, if your goal is a ring or two within the next four five years. If the price for that is having a player regressing back down to average in his retirement year, well that's the way how things work in NBA. According to your logic, we shouldn't give Shard a long-term contract, cause probably in three years time his numbers will be going down too. Getting closer to his retirement he even will be making more money than currently, like many other NBA players. This is how it works.

 

If I were Otis, I'd try to keep Hedo not only for what he has done, but also for what Magic can achieve, with Hedo on the roster.

 

i do agree that hedo is a huge part of us getting this far. I wouldnt want to get rid of him for nothing, only as a way to get better. My main point is that we all assume that hedo can continue to be the guy for the next few seasons. But it is more likely that he returns to his 12-14 ppg great role player type of role. This is more about money than it is about hedo.

 

Shard is the same age as hedo and has another 233 games before he reaches the 1000 games mark. So after another 3 seasons is he expected to decline. He is a jumpshooter though so his decline will be a lot slower than a post player or point guard. But, even if in 3 seasons Shard began to suck the contract would be worth it because we've had 5 years of significant production on his 6 year contract.

 

The worst case scenario for the magic is we give him a 9-10 million 4 year contract and he becomes a 12-14 pt scorer next season. There is empiracle evidence of this happening (see other players i mentioned earlier).

 

But, if we can get 2007/2008 hedo for 2 or 3 years of that 4-5 year contract then in my opinion it would be worth it.

[jackie69 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by jackie69:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by jackie69:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

I find it fascinating that people would apparently rather judge a player based on the offensive half of 4 playoff games than the entire preceding season.

 

Judging a player based entirely on a few playoff games is how players like Jerome James and Daniel Gibson got paid way more than they were worth.

F***k off and admit it you b****rd. You know he is the only one that can save our asses from these series. Everybody who understands a little bit of basketball is admiring him and his versatility (watch post game conferences of Doc Rivers and Mike Brown) but some stubborn idiots like you are afraid of admitting the fact that they are wrong. You are just a loser...

 

What am I admitting? That he's played well in his last 3 games? I clearly implied that already. I did that in my first post. You quoted it. It was right there. It was also, as I said, completely irrelevant to my point.

 

If Adonal Foyle averaged 20/10 in the rest of the playoffs, he wouldn't deserve a big contract because all prior evidence suggests that Adonal Foyle was playing above his talent level and will regress back to the mean. That's what "averages" are. It's also why teams that give players big contracts just because of a few great playoff games will inevitably be upset they did so. It did with Boobie Gibson. It did with Luol Deng. It did with pretty much every other player that's ever gotten a contract because of a playoff series before.

 

When determining what a player deserves, you have to examine what the player IS. Turk just had the second best year of his career, averaging 16.8/5.3/4.9 on woeful percentages while serving as a defensive sieve against most opposing 3s. These are what we call "facts".

 

But ok, you think the playoffs are more of an indication of who Turk is than the regular season. Fine.

 

In the playoffs, Turk is averaging 14.7/3.7/5 on slightly less woeful percentages and while serving as a complete defensive sieve on whomever he's guarding.

 

So ok: your argument is that a 14.7/3.7/5 player deserves...what exactly? Rafer Alston makes 4.9m this year, and his 12/2.4/4.7 on only mildly worse percentages in 5 fewer minutes has been complained about constantly(and rightfully so, since he's played like crap). And you think 2.7 more pts, 1.3 more rebs and .3 more asts in 5 more minutes is worth an extra 5m a year for a 30 year old player whose averages dropped across the board this year from last?

 

Now, I'm feeling nice so I won't report you for the swearing. But seriously: if you're going to ask if others are 15, it's probably a good idea to not swear at someone for disagreeing with you.

I am not here to lobby for Hedo`s contract. Aren't you a terrible liar.

I am just sick of you guys that are keeping on blaming Hedo when he has an off night but refrain from giving him credit when he leads the team. Funny. I'm sick of people like you who show up everytime Hedo manages to string together a couple of solid games and act like that's what he always does, and then watching you get indignant whenever I prove that, no really, this is the exception and that usually Hedo has been mediocre at best this season. I complimented him for the last 3 games in my first post in this thread. You know, the one you responded to with "**** you"? The fact that I am capable of basic reasoning and realize that, and I'll say this slow for you:

Hedo

has

proven

that

he's

not

a

consistently

reliable

player,

doesn't make me a hater, a racist, immature, or any other completely ridiculous insult you want to hurl at me. I could care less if Hedo plays well the rest of the playoffs, because here's the bottom line: Hedo still won't be worth anything close to what he's asking for. This should be obvious to anyone with basic reasoning.

 

16.8/5.3/4.9 regular season stats are bad, right? No, they're above average numbers. But you've conveniently ignored both efficiency and defense. Efficiency is important because scoring 30 points a game isnt impressive if you need 26 shots to do so(see Jerry Stackhouse's 30ppg season as an example), and defense is important because it's half the **** game.

 

And then, for the post season just look at the last 3 games and the maturity he has been showing in terms of runnin the offense. Did you not bother reading the part of my original post where I said judging a player by 3 games and ignoring the preceding 10+ is retarded, or are you just completely lacking in basic reading comprehension? You're arguing my point for me, and you seem completely oblivious to it.

 

Then, regarding the defense who has he been guarding during the series? Igudala, Paul Pierce and now Lebron James. Do you think that Rashard would do a better job on these guys? Yes. I also think that Turk's failure to keep track of anyone off the ball, including such offensive heavyweights as Brian Scalabrine, Delonte West and Wally Szerbiak is worth noting. You ignore it, of course, because it makes Hedo look like a bad defensive player without the pesky "He's guarding superstars" excuse.

Come on, just be mature. Says the person who called me a ******* and said "**** you" to me. Strong work.

 

And are you comparing Rafer to Hedo? Woww. Just wowww....Yeah, I know right. Heaven forbid I compare one MLE offensive player who shoots bad percentages and can't play defense to another. Christ, tearing you Hedo fans' arguments apart is like LOOKING at fish in a barrel.

You know what, you are just a joke. There are thousands of reasonable guys on this forum, but just a couple of ignorant, stubborn idiots like you. Have you seen what Rashard has been doing defensively? Of course not. You were just concentrating on Hedo`s faults. I bet you will prefer Magic loses instead of Hedo having a big night. You are just ridiculous. I can understand now why people gave up arguing with you. Again, I don`t care if he makes 5 or 15 million. He is not going to share that with me. I just have fun watching basketball, unlike you haters that have some problems with particular players...

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by jackie69:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by jackie69:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by jackie69:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

I find it fascinating that people would apparently rather judge a player based on the offensive half of 4 playoff games than the entire preceding season.

 

Judging a player based entirely on a few playoff games is how players like Jerome James and Daniel Gibson got paid way more than they were worth.

F***k off and admit it you b****rd. You know he is the only one that can save our asses from these series. Everybody who understands a little bit of basketball is admiring him and his versatility (watch post game conferences of Doc Rivers and Mike Brown) but some stubborn idiots like you are afraid of admitting the fact that they are wrong. You are just a loser...

 

What am I admitting? That he's played well in his last 3 games? I clearly implied that already. I did that in my first post. You quoted it. It was right there. It was also, as I said, completely irrelevant to my point.

 

If Adonal Foyle averaged 20/10 in the rest of the playoffs, he wouldn't deserve a big contract because all prior evidence suggests that Adonal Foyle was playing above his talent level and will regress back to the mean. That's what "averages" are. It's also why teams that give players big contracts just because of a few great playoff games will inevitably be upset they did so. It did with Boobie Gibson. It did with Luol Deng. It did with pretty much every other player that's ever gotten a contract because of a playoff series before.

 

When determining what a player deserves, you have to examine what the player IS. Turk just had the second best year of his career, averaging 16.8/5.3/4.9 on woeful percentages while serving as a defensive sieve against most opposing 3s. These are what we call "facts".

 

But ok, you think the playoffs are more of an indication of who Turk is than the regular season. Fine.

 

In the playoffs, Turk is averaging 14.7/3.7/5 on slightly less woeful percentages and while serving as a complete defensive sieve on whomever he's guarding.

 

So ok: your argument is that a 14.7/3.7/5 player deserves...what exactly? Rafer Alston makes 4.9m this year, and his 12/2.4/4.7 on only mildly worse percentages in 5 fewer minutes has been complained about constantly(and rightfully so, since he's played like crap). And you think 2.7 more pts, 1.3 more rebs and .3 more asts in 5 more minutes is worth an extra 5m a year for a 30 year old player whose averages dropped across the board this year from last?

 

Now, I'm feeling nice so I won't report you for the swearing. But seriously: if you're going to ask if others are 15, it's probably a good idea to not swear at someone for disagreeing with you.

I am not here to lobby for Hedo`s contract. Aren't you a terrible liar.

I am just sick of you guys that are keeping on blaming Hedo when he has an off night but refrain from giving him credit when he leads the team. Funny. I'm sick of people like you who show up everytime Hedo manages to string together a couple of solid games and act like that's what he always does, and then watching you get indignant whenever I prove that, no really, this is the exception and that usually Hedo has been mediocre at best this season. I complimented him for the last 3 games in my first post in this thread. You know, the one you responded to with "**** you"? The fact that I am capable of basic reasoning and realize that, and I'll say this slow for you:

Hedo

has

proven

that

he's

not

a

consistently

reliable

player,

doesn't make me a hater, a racist, immature, or any other completely ridiculous insult you want to hurl at me. I could care less if Hedo plays well the rest of the playoffs, because here's the bottom line: Hedo still won't be worth anything close to what he's asking for. This should be obvious to anyone with basic reasoning.

 

16.8/5.3/4.9 regular season stats are bad, right? No, they're above average numbers. But you've conveniently ignored both efficiency and defense. Efficiency is important because scoring 30 points a game isnt impressive if you need 26 shots to do so(see Jerry Stackhouse's 30ppg season as an example), and defense is important because it's half the **** game.

 

And then, for the post season just look at the last 3 games and the maturity he has been showing in terms of runnin the offense. Did you not bother reading the part of my original post where I said judging a player by 3 games and ignoring the preceding 10+ is retarded, or are you just completely lacking in basic reading comprehension? You're arguing my point for me, and you seem completely oblivious to it.

 

Then, regarding the defense who has he been guarding during the series? Igudala, Paul Pierce and now Lebron James. Do you think that Rashard would do a better job on these guys? Yes. I also think that Turk's failure to keep track of anyone off the ball, including such offensive heavyweights as Brian Scalabrine, Delonte West and Wally Szerbiak is worth noting. You ignore it, of course, because it makes Hedo look like a bad defensive player without the pesky "He's guarding superstars" excuse.

Come on, just be mature. Says the person who called me a ******* and said "**** you" to me. Strong work.

 

And are you comparing Rafer to Hedo? Woww. Just wowww....Yeah, I know right. Heaven forbid I compare one MLE offensive player who shoots bad percentages and can't play defense to another. Christ, tearing you Hedo fans' arguments apart is like LOOKING at fish in a barrel.

You know what, you are just a joke. There are thousands of reasonable guys on this forum, but just a couple of ignorant, stubborn idiots like you. Have you seen what Rashard has been doing defensively? Of course not. You were just concentrating on Hedo`s faults. I bet you will prefer Magic loses instead of Hedo having a big night. You are just ridiculous. I can understand now why people gave up arguing with you. Again, I don`t care if he makes 5 or 15 million. He is not going to share that with me. I just have fun watching basketball, unlike you haters that have some problems with particular players...

 

Rashard has been guarding someone 6 inches taller than he is and doing an admirable job. And amazingly enough, you haven't "argued" anything. You've yet to respond to a single point I've made. Even Sarge at least would argue 1 out of 50 points I'd make before calling me an idiot and declaring himself the winner, and we openly make fun of how stupid Sarge is.

[jackie69 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by jackie69:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by jackie69:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by jackie69:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

I find it fascinating that people would apparently rather judge a player based on the offensive half of 4 playoff games than the entire preceding season.

 

Judging a player based entirely on a few playoff games is how players like Jerome James and Daniel Gibson got paid way more than they were worth.

F***k off and admit it you b****rd. You know he is the only one that can save our asses from these series. Everybody who understands a little bit of basketball is admiring him and his versatility (watch post game conferences of Doc Rivers and Mike Brown) but some stubborn idiots like you are afraid of admitting the fact that they are wrong. You are just a loser...

 

What am I admitting? That he's played well in his last 3 games? I clearly implied that already. I did that in my first post. You quoted it. It was right there. It was also, as I said, completely irrelevant to my point.

 

If Adonal Foyle averaged 20/10 in the rest of the playoffs, he wouldn't deserve a big contract because all prior evidence suggests that Adonal Foyle was playing above his talent level and will regress back to the mean. That's what "averages" are. It's also why teams that give players big contracts just because of a few great playoff games will inevitably be upset they did so. It did with Boobie Gibson. It did with Luol Deng. It did with pretty much every other player that's ever gotten a contract because of a playoff series before.

 

When determining what a player deserves, you have to examine what the player IS. Turk just had the second best year of his career, averaging 16.8/5.3/4.9 on woeful percentages while serving as a defensive sieve against most opposing 3s. These are what we call "facts".

 

But ok, you think the playoffs are more of an indication of who Turk is than the regular season. Fine.

 

In the playoffs, Turk is averaging 14.7/3.7/5 on slightly less woeful percentages and while serving as a complete defensive sieve on whomever he's guarding.

 

So ok: your argument is that a 14.7/3.7/5 player deserves...what exactly? Rafer Alston makes 4.9m this year, and his 12/2.4/4.7 on only mildly worse percentages in 5 fewer minutes has been complained about constantly(and rightfully so, since he's played like crap). And you think 2.7 more pts, 1.3 more rebs and .3 more asts in 5 more minutes is worth an extra 5m a year for a 30 year old player whose averages dropped across the board this year from last?

 

Now, I'm feeling nice so I won't report you for the swearing. But seriously: if you're going to ask if others are 15, it's probably a good idea to not swear at someone for disagreeing with you.

I am not here to lobby for Hedo`s contract. Aren't you a terrible liar.

I am just sick of you guys that are keeping on blaming Hedo when he has an off night but refrain from giving him credit when he leads the team. Funny. I'm sick of people like you who show up everytime Hedo manages to string together a couple of solid games and act like that's what he always does, and then watching you get indignant whenever I prove that, no really, this is the exception and that usually Hedo has been mediocre at best this season. I complimented him for the last 3 games in my first post in this thread. You know, the one you responded to with "**** you"? The fact that I am capable of basic reasoning and realize that, and I'll say this slow for you:

Hedo

has

proven

that

he's

not

a

consistently

reliable

player,

doesn't make me a hater, a racist, immature, or any other completely ridiculous insult you want to hurl at me. I could care less if Hedo plays well the rest of the playoffs, because here's the bottom line: Hedo still won't be worth anything close to what he's asking for. This should be obvious to anyone with basic reasoning.

 

16.8/5.3/4.9 regular season stats are bad, right? No, they're above average numbers. But you've conveniently ignored both efficiency and defense. Efficiency is important because scoring 30 points a game isnt impressive if you need 26 shots to do so(see Jerry Stackhouse's 30ppg season as an example), and defense is important because it's half the **** game.

 

And then, for the post season just look at the last 3 games and the maturity he has been showing in terms of runnin the offense. Did you not bother reading the part of my original post where I said judging a player by 3 games and ignoring the preceding 10+ is retarded, or are you just completely lacking in basic reading comprehension? You're arguing my point for me, and you seem completely oblivious to it.

 

Then, regarding the defense who has he been guarding during the series? Igudala, Paul Pierce and now Lebron James. Do you think that Rashard would do a better job on these guys? Yes. I also think that Turk's failure to keep track of anyone off the ball, including such offensive heavyweights as Brian Scalabrine, Delonte West and Wally Szerbiak is worth noting. You ignore it, of course, because it makes Hedo look like a bad defensive player without the pesky "He's guarding superstars" excuse.

Come on, just be mature. Says the person who called me a ******* and said "**** you" to me. Strong work.

 

And are you comparing Rafer to Hedo? Woww. Just wowww....Yeah, I know right. Heaven forbid I compare one MLE offensive player who shoots bad percentages and can't play defense to another. Christ, tearing you Hedo fans' arguments apart is like LOOKING at fish in a barrel.

You know what, you are just a joke. There are thousands of reasonable guys on this forum, but just a couple of ignorant, stubborn idiots like you. Have you seen what Rashard has been doing defensively? Of course not. You were just concentrating on Hedo`s faults. I bet you will prefer Magic loses instead of Hedo having a big night. You are just ridiculous. I can understand now why people gave up arguing with you. Again, I don`t care if he makes 5 or 15 million. He is not going to share that with me. I just have fun watching basketball, unlike you haters that have some problems with particular players...

 

Rashard has been guarding someone 6 inches taller than he is and doing an admirable job. And amazingly enough, you haven't "argued" anything. You've yet to respond to a single point I've made. Even Sarge at least would argue 1 out of 50 points I'd make before calling me an idiot and declaring himself the winner, and we openly make fun of how stupid Sarge is.

Get a life dude. I know that whatever i say, it`s not going to change your hate or your mindset. I really feel sorry for you...

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by jackie69:

Get a life dude. I really feel sorry for you...

 

Awwww, thanks! Thank you so much!

[Osprey 199]

Its funny to me how instead of arguing facts that are REPEATEDLY put forth by Drunk, posters continue to tell him to "**** off", call him a "*******" and a racist, and say he is "ridiculous".

 

The funny thing is, Drunk continually comes back with statistical evidence supporting his claims, he brings up reliable league-wide comparisons, and responds to every counterpoint thrown his way (including "ridiculous" straw man arguments, circular logic, and blatantly false statements), all while refraining from personal attacks on those in the firing squad.

 

Take notes people and read Drunk's posts; that is the correct way to debate a topic, whether you agree with him or not.

[jackie69 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Osprey23:

Its funny to me how instead of arguing facts that are REPEATEDLY put forth by Drunk, posters continue to tell him to "**** off", call him a "*******" and a racist, and say he is "ridiculous".

 

The funny thing is, Drunk continually comes back with statistical evidence supporting his claims, he brings up reliable league-wide comparisons, and responds to every counterpoint thrown his way (including "ridiculous" straw man arguments, circular logic, and blatantly false statements), all while refraining from personal attacks on those in the firing squad.

 

Take notes people and read Drunk's posts; that is the correct way to debate a topic, whether you agree with him or not.

Again, the same guys. Isn`t it funny? As i said earlier, you are just a couple. Three of you are already jumped on this thread, because it has Hedo in it. lol...