2014 Draft Thread

[the notorious S.A.C. 89]

Embiid has alot of upside. I have him number one on my board and I have for a long time, but he is unproven. nick is proven to be an impact player and shows up big against top teams like the heat. We have the ability to match and trade later, because of the rookie contract. I think nick is a keeper. we will win faster by keeping nick as a core piece.

 

I do see us trading harris if we land parker and want to keep him. I personally would go exum before parker. Like hennie, I like two way players and I think exum has the ability to be a two way player.

 

Once he gets a big offer his sign and trade value drops like a rock since he already has eliminated the other suitors. Henny needs to be proactive NOW and not wait. Imagine if we had moved Dwight before his schenanigans. We would have got a heck of a lot more than when he controlled the options since he was close to the end of his deal. Embiids upside is Hakeem...you don't pass that up. Vuch is a nice piece but the top 4 this year are very very talented.

[BN 44]

As much as I hate to admit it, those are some compelling arguments for moving Nick (especially if Embiid's back checks out and our other pick is in the top two slots), but it just feels so... dirty...

 

Anyways, I'd be more than happy with Exum and Saric in the first round.

[magicblue 315]

Once he gets a big offer his sign and trade value drops like a rock since he already has eliminated the other suitors. Henny needs to be proactive NOW and not wait. Imagine if we had moved Dwight before his schenanigans. We would have got a heck of a lot more than when he controlled the options since he was close to the end of his deal. Embiids upside is Hakeem...you don't pass that up. Vuch is a nice piece but the top 4 this year are very very talented.

 

We had no reason to be thinking trade with Dwight prior to his shenanigans. It's easy to say we should have now with hindsight being 20/20 but we would have been the laughing stock of the league moving a franchise center in his prime who wasn't asking to go anywhere.

 

I do agree with what you're saying in this scenario with Vuc however because of the potential Embiid option, the possibility of adding another highly touted draft pick, and the added financial benefit of not having to commit $10-12M into a center who is probably one full notch below franchise caliber.

[the notorious S.A.C. 89]

We had no reason to be thinking trade with Dwight prior to his shenanigans. It's easy to say we should have now with hindsight being 20/20 but we would have been the laughing stock of the league moving a franchise center in his prime who wasn't asking to go anywhere.

 

I do agree with what you're saying in this scenario with Vuc however because of the potential Embiid option, the possibility of adding another highly touted draft pick, and the added financial benefit of not having to commit $10-12M into a center who is probably one full notch below franchise caliber.

 

First I do think there were rumblings with Dwight before his last 2 years. In fact Otis had said he would have to talk him back to wanting to be a part of the team in prior years. Additionally his relationship with SVG was always rough at best (mostly because he was a crybaby spoiled brat...sorry I had to let that one out). I think if we traded a 3 time defensive MVP and the number one guy to build your team around for players like Vuch/Harkless and protected picks then yes we get laughed at more than we did after every draft pick or trade Otis made. However if we had a decent GM imagine the return the guy would bring. We certainly wouldnt be bottom feeding like we are now. GM's need to continually maximize value and anticipate the future of their team. Otis did neither and purposely did the opposite.

 

There is one plus. Would you have wanted Otis to have moved Dwight back then...good god we would have had every has been washed up big contract in the league and likely traded all our firsts for a decade just to get rid of Dwight. I can remember debating with some here about why in the world the Magic would even consider letting Otis move Dwight when everyone knew Otis was gone at the end. Henny is an astute gm and a good evaluator of talent so far in my eyes. Thank god he was the one who pulled the trigger or we would have Lopez and the Nets garbage or even worse Bynum here.

 

 

Ill also throw this one out. If WE DONT give Vuch $10-12M THIS SUMMER to lock him up and he plays hard for that contract he will push MAX dollars. In fact he may actually deserve it in that scenario....good for him. However, on the other end if Embiid is half of what I think he is (or Wiggins/Parker) you get that stud for 4 more years for DIRT CHEAP. In nearly every scenario that is the smarter move. Slightly more risky but MASSIVE and I mean MASSIVE upside with a fantastic foundation built to last. This was my biggest beef with Otis (among many). He got Jameer and Dwight on rookie deals with a pretty darn clean group of team contracts and what does he do....turns it to the NBA's biggest roster of garbage (although we did get one finals shot which I reluctantly gave him credit for). If only I mentioned Durant and a max free agent for Dwight all would have been understood as it is now.

[PennysRUs 5]

First I do think there were rumblings with Dwight before his last 2 years. In fact Otis had said he would have to talk him back to wanting to be a part of the team in prior years. Additionally his relationship with SVG was always rough at best (mostly because he was a crybaby spoiled brat...sorry I had to let that one out). I think if we traded a 3 time defensive MVP and the number one guy to build your team around for players like Vuch/Harkless and protected picks then yes we get laughed at more than we did after every draft pick or trade Otis made. However if we had a decent GM imagine the return the guy would bring. We certainly wouldnt be bottom feeding like we are now. GM's need to continually maximize value and anticipate the future of their team. Otis did neither and purposely did the opposite.

 

Hindsight is always 20/20, but the trade value of Dwight was high after 2009-2010 ECF and I thought if the Magic couldn't trade for a legit star they should have moved him. That didn't happen and we all know what then ensued. :panicworker:

 

As for trading Vuc... I'm not really on board with that, even if I feel he's a tad over valued by Magic fans. I like Embid, I think he's a very good player when healthy. I don't like however, the fact that the majority of big guys that have injuries whether it be back or knee injuries, tend to suffer more and more injuries throughout their careers (Greg Oden, Andrew Bynum, Andrew Bogut, -- There are more, but those were the 3 that quickly popped into my head). Will Embid be that or will he be like Tim Duncan who stayed relatively healthy for most of his career? I'm not sure, but it is a lot to risk on the potential top 3 pick, in a very loaded draft class.

 

The first question is that If he's cleared, works out for the team, and they still feel high enough to draft him at 3, are they are making the statement that Embid is going to be our center of the future? If that answer is yes then the second question has to be where do we see Vuc fitting in? Can he play the 4 and be successful enough that we're willing to pay him 10M a year? If he's not, do we think Embid can play the 4? (I think he's a back to the basket Center and I find it a little weird pairing the two)

 

Those are all questions that the GM and Coach are going to have to answer before drafting this guy. If they do take Embid though, I would almost certainly trade Vuc and the same goes for Tobias Harris if the Magic draft Andrew Wiggins or Jabari Parker. The only player in the top 4 that they won't have to ask that question about is Exum because he plays a position of need and by the scouts assessment of him is a top 4 or 5 talent in this years draft. For me, the draft board should be Wiggins, Exum, Embid, Parker. This obviously goes out the window if we fall to 5 though.

 

I'm also hoping the Magic move Afflalo to a team like Chicago who needs a 2 guard badly for their 2 picks in the draft. That would give them the option to take all 4 picks, or move 12/16/19 to move up into the top 10 and snag a guy like Vonleh.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

First I do think there were rumblings with Dwight before his last 2 years. In fact Otis had said he would have to talk him back to wanting to be a part of the team in prior years. Additionally his relationship with SVG was always rough at best (mostly because he was a crybaby spoiled brat...sorry I had to let that one out). I think if we traded a 3 time defensive MVP and the number one guy to build your team around for players like Vuch/Harkless and protected picks then yes we get laughed at more than we did after every draft pick or trade Otis made. However if we had a decent GM imagine the return the guy would bring. We certainly wouldnt be bottom feeding like we are now. GM's need to continually maximize value and anticipate the future of their team. Otis did neither and purposely did the opposite.

 

There is one plus. Would you have wanted Otis to have moved Dwight back then...good god we would have had every has been washed up big contract in the league and likely traded all our firsts for a decade just to get rid of Dwight. I can remember debating with some here about why in the world the Magic would even consider letting Otis move Dwight when everyone knew Otis was gone at the end. Henny is an astute gm and a good evaluator of talent so far in my eyes. Thank god he was the one who pulled the trigger or we would have Lopez and the Nets garbage or even worse Bynum here.

 

 

Ill also throw this one out. If WE DONT give Vuch $10-12M THIS SUMMER to lock him up and he plays hard for that contract he will push MAX dollars. In fact he may actually deserve it in that scenario....good for him. However, on the other end if Embiid is half of what I think he is (or Wiggins/Parker) you get that stud for 4 more years for DIRT CHEAP. In nearly every scenario that is the smarter move. Slightly more risky but MASSIVE and I mean MASSIVE upside with a fantastic foundation built to last. This was my biggest beef with Otis (among many). He got Jameer and Dwight on rookie deals with a pretty darn clean group of team contracts and what does he do....turns it to the NBA's biggest roster of garbage (although we did get one finals shot which I reluctantly gave him credit for). If only I mentioned Durant and a max free agent for Dwight all would have been understood as it is now.

 

 

You're just throwing words together now. You have no idea what you're talking about.

[magicblue 315]

Hindsight is always 20/20, but the trade value of Dwight was high after 2009-2010 ECF and I thought if the Magic couldn't trade for a legit star they should have moved him. That didn't happen and we all know what then ensued. :panicworker:/>

 

As for trading Vuc... I'm not really on board with that, even if I feel he's a tad over valued by Magic fans. I like Embid, I think he's a very good player when healthy. I don't like however, the fact that the majority of big guys that have injuries whether it be back or knee injuries, tend to suffer more and more injuries throughout their careers (Greg Oden, Andrew Bynum, Andrew Bogut, -- There are more, but those were the 3 that quickly popped into my head). Will Embid be that or will he be like Tim Duncan who stayed relatively healthy for most of his career? I'm not sure, but it is a lot to risk on the potential top 3 pick, in a very loaded draft class.

 

The first question is that If he's cleared, works out for the team, and they still feel high enough to draft him at 3, are they are making the statement that Embid is going to be our center of the future? If that answer is yes then the second question has to be where do we see Vuc fitting in? Can he play the 4 and be successful enough that we're willing to pay him 10M a year? If he's not, do we think Embid can play the 4? (I think he's a back to the basket Center and I find it a little weird pairing the two)

 

Those are all questions that the GM and Coach are going to have to answer before drafting this guy. If they do take Embid though, I would almost certainly trade Vuc and the same goes for Tobias Harris if the Magic draft Andrew Wiggins or Jabari Parker. The only player in the top 4 that they won't have to ask that question about is Exum because he plays a position of need and by the scouts assessment of him is a top 4 or 5 talent in this years draft. For me, the draft board should be Wiggins, Exum, Embid, Parker. This obviously goes out the window if we fall to 5 though.

 

I'm also hoping the Magic move Afflalo to a team like Chicago who needs a 2 guard badly for their 2 picks in the draft. That would give them the option to take all 4 picks, or move 12/16/19 to move up into the top 10 and snag a guy like Vonleh.

 

This is getting ridiculous. You don't just trade a guy, who many felt was the second best player to Lebron at the time, because his trade value is high. Nobody at that time had the ability to see what was coming two years later so let's stop playing that game

[the notorious S.A.C. 89]

This is getting ridiculous. You don't just trade a guy, who many felt was the second best player to Lebron at the time, because his trade value is high. Nobody at that time had the ability to see what was coming two years later so let's stop playing that game

 

I wouldnt want to have traded Dwight either....but it is an option. Everyone is tradeable for the right price. The real decision lies in wether the player will resign here and at what opportunity cost of doing so. The cost for Vuch is likely 12M plus AND a top flight free agent. Thats how I look at it. Is he worth the big deal for 4 years AND the top tier FA?

 

We certainly have to do our due diligence in regard to Embiid's back. If it is reasonable we take our most tradable asset and move him for an inexpensive talented rookie deal instead of paying the high price for 4 years and strapping the club's flexibility. Henny actually has a brain and I would think he is considering the same.

[Catman 380]

The Duncan/Robinson pair played from the 97-98 season to the 02-03 season. Jacque Vaughn was still a player for all those years, none of them with the Spurs.

 

Yeah. I know that.

 

Jacque Vaughn still designed the offense as an Assistant for Pop. That offense has had 2 bigs in a similar fashion to Vuc/Embiid for example.

 

The Spurs have had the same personnel philosophy since the 90s. Just because Robinson retired does not mean they changed it.

 

My point - Embiid/Vuc would be utilized very well by Vaughn.

[CTMagicUK 1,491]

Yeah. I know that.

 

Jacque Vaughn still designed the offense as an Assistant for Pop. That offense has had 2 bigs in a similar fashion to Vuc/Embiid for example.

 

The Spurs have had the same personnel philosophy since the 90s. Just because Robinson retired does not mean they changed it.

 

My point - Embiid/Vuc would be utilized very well by Vaughn.

 

If that offense has been the same since that time how would Jacque have had anything to do with it? He just came in as an assistant with the offense already in place. Also, in the two years Vaughn was coach Dejuan Blair (6'7) started at PF for the majority of the time. That's hardly playing two 7 footers at the same time.

[MagicFanInNevada 51]

Everyone is tradeable for the right price.

 

Smh, you don't even believe that. Do you think Lebron and Durant can be had for the right price? I'm not on board with trading a player who's in the top 5-7 at his position. Vucevic is a top 5 rebounder, one of the league leaders in double-doubles, only 24 I believe, and hasn't even tapped into his offensive potential yet but people on here want to trade him. Sure his defense isn't the greatest but you can always get yourself a rim protector to play alongside him.

 

Fans are never going to be satisfied at this rate. When we had the best center on our team we still had complaints about him. Dwight needs a post game, Dwight needs to work on his FT, etc. I say we roll with the Center we have and build around him. I truly believe if we get a good wing player and a true PG we will be fine for the future. You're not going to build a winning team if you keep trading every young asset you have because there will be no chemistry. I think we're all in agreeance that Oladipo, Vucevic, and Harris are our best 3 young assets. I say build around them and let the team gel.

 

I find it laughable that people are trying to bank on the 2015 offseason. What if we put all our chips in on that free agency class and strike out? Aldridge seems happy and probably will stay, we're not sure what Love is going to do, Rondo may be traded this offseason, so you can't try and depend on something like that. IMO I say we at the least hold on to Harkless (unless we get Wiggins), Harris, Vucevic, and Oladipo and go from there.

[Catman 380]

If that offense has been the same since that time how would Jacque have had anything to do with it? He just came in as an assistant with the offense already in place. Also, in the two years Vaughn was coach Dejuan Blair (6'7) started at PF for the majority of the time. That's hardly playing two 7 footers at the same time.

 

I said PERSONNEL. Also, you can argue all you want, but the Spurs offense has and still has preferred starting lineups like Splitter/Duncan. They had to develop Splitter for a while, but it is clear to everyone that they prefer a twin towers offense.

 

Which is why Vaughn will be comfortable in it. He learned from Popovich and knows how to set up a high low offense and create corner 3s for the wing players as well.