Turk - Back-up or Starter ?

[Erik 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Rob:

Now lets say your starters were Nelson Ariza Turkoglu Lewis Howard and you were playing the Nuggets and they threw a starting lineup like AI Smith Anthony Kmart Camby. Who guards who?

Nelson guards AI, Ariza Guards Anthony, Turk guards Smith, Lewis guards Kmart,Dwight Guards Camby. Imo, ariza guards the strongest offensive player from the other team from 1-4 depending on size,much like Bowen in San Antonio.

[Nyce_1 311]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

Actually, come to think of it, (making a sarcastic analogy here) I'm surprised that offensive football powerhouses like Indy & San Diego don't bring LT and Adai off the bench to play 3rd down. They have plenty of offensive weapons so they should spread out their impact options to include the 3rd and 4th down lineups.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by Erik:

quote:

Originally posted by Rob:

Now lets say your starters were Nelson Ariza Turkoglu Lewis Howard and you were playing the Nuggets and they threw a starting lineup like AI Smith Anthony Kmart Camby. Who guards who?

Nelson guards AI, Ariza Guards Anthony, Turk guards Smith, Lewis guards Kmart,Dwight Guards Camby. Imo, ariza guards the strongest offensive player from the other team from 1-4 depending on size,much like Bowen in San Antonio.

 

I think Erik understands what I'm getting at.

Also Rob - you're assuming KMart is going to be healthy.

 

And as I've said before, there will be one to two teams in the league that we won't be able to match up with, and on those nights, you alter the starting lineup so we matchup better.

 

The other thing that's being ignored is the ability to substitute at any time. If we begin the game and we are getting pushed around because we are playing a more physical opponent, then we bring in some muscle. If Hedo is not hitting his shot and spreading hte floor, then we bring in Bogans or JJ. If Ariza gets winded from D'ing up on a high octane player like RIP, then we give him a blow with Bogans coming in.

 

I just like all our options by playing Turk & Shard in the same lineup. I also love how much space Dwight would have to work with, with the threat of those two shooters camping outside. It also gives Jameer more room to operate with the ball. Very simply, it creates lanes. If you have Battie in there, who is not much of an offensive option, then the opposing PF can easily double team Dwight.

 

I did not like our substitutions at all last year, as many people didn't. I didn't like seeing numerous bench players averaging 15-25 minutes because our starters couldn't handle the load (Battie), or because our coach thought that we needed to achieve balance off the bench (Dooling, Arroyo, Ariza, Bogans).

[Rob 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Erik:

quote:

Originally posted by Rob:

Now lets say your starters were Nelson Ariza Turkoglu Lewis Howard and you were playing the Nuggets and they threw a starting lineup like AI Smith Anthony Kmart Camby. Who guards who?

Nelson guards AI, Ariza Guards Anthony, Turk guards Smith, Lewis guards Kmart,Dwight Guards Camby. Imo, ariza guards the strongest offensive player from the other team from 1-4 depending on size,much like Bowen in San Antonio.

 

ok Ai would kill Nelson, Ariza will put up a good defense against Melo but might not stop him still, Smith to quick for Turk, Kmart to much of a beast for Lewis cause hes to soft, and Camby vs Howard is the only true matchup besides Melo vs Ariza that will work. So every game we will have to keep adjusting our starting lineups for different opponents. Why cant we just put in players to start for us every game, get used to each other and let them become as good as the Spurs are. They never make changes. Bowens always guard the best player( Ariza) then Parker Ginobili Duncan are their triple scoring threat (Nelson Lewis Howard) and Elson is their to help out on the boards or the easy scorers (Gortat Battie or Foyle). Robert Horry comes off the bench to knock down clutch 3s (Turkoglu). Barry and Finley off the bench to contribute points as well (Redick and Bogans). If we want to be a championship team, then we should lineup like one. Thats why i think dont fit in the starting lineup.

[Rob 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Rob:

quote:

Originally posted by Erik:

quote:

Originally posted by Rob:

Now lets say your starters were Nelson Ariza Turkoglu Lewis Howard and you were playing the Nuggets and they threw a starting lineup like AI Smith Anthony Kmart Camby. Who guards who?

Nelson guards AI, Ariza Guards Anthony, Turk guards Smith, Lewis guards Kmart,Dwight Guards Camby. Imo, ariza guards the strongest offensive player from the other team from 1-4 depending on size,much like Bowen in San Antonio.

 

ok Ai would kill Nelson, Ariza will put up a good defense against Melo but might not stop him still, Smith to quick for Turk, Kmart to much of a beast for Lewis cause hes to soft, and Camby vs Howard is the only true matchup besides Melo vs Ariza that will work. So every game we will have to keep adjusting our starting lineups for different opponents. Why cant we just put in players to start for us every game, get used to each other and let them become as good as the Spurs are. They never make changes. Bowens always guard the best player( Ariza) then Parker Ginobili Duncan are their triple scoring threat (Nelson Lewis Howard) and Elson is their to help out on the boards or the easy scorers (Gortat Battie or Foyle). Robert Horry comes off the bench to knock down clutch 3s (Turkoglu). Barry and Finley off the bench to contribute points as well (Redick and Bogans). If we want to be a championship team, then we should lineup like one. Thats why i think dont fit in the starting lineup.

 

Hedo doesnt fit in the starting lineup.

[Erik 0]

Smack I agree Battie in there with Dwight clutters the middle to much,with two outside threats like Shard and Turk,that also gives Jameer and Trevor room to slash to the basket,it's good all around. The only team I really see giving us a hard time is New York, San Antonio, Miami, and maybe Utah.

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by Rob:

ok Ai would kill Nelson, Ariza will put up a good defense against Melo but might not stop him still, Smith to quick for Turk, Kmart to much of a beast for Lewis cause hes to soft, and Camby vs Howard is the only true matchup besides Melo vs Ariza that will work. So every game we will have to keep adjusting our starting lineups for different opponents. Why cant we just put in players to start for us every game, get used to each other and let them become as good as the Spurs are. They never make changes. Bowens always guard the best player( Ariza) then Parker Ginobili Duncan are their triple scoring threat (Nelson Lewis Howard) and Elson is their to help out on the boards or the easy scorers (Gortat Battie or Foyle). Robert Horry comes off the bench to knock down clutch 3s (Turkoglu). Barry and Finley off the bench to contribute points as well (Redick and Bogans). If we want to be a championship team, then we should lineup like one. Thats why i think dont fit in the starting lineup.

 

Never make changes?????????? The Spurs brought Ginobli off the bench the second half of the season and in the post season. Did you watch them at all?

 

I do see what you're saying though with your comparison to the Spurs, but the game is constantly evolving. For that reason, I say we become innovators instead of copycats.

[Rob 0]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

quote:

Originally posted by Rob:

ok Ai would kill Nelson, Ariza will put up a good defense against Melo but might not stop him still, Smith to quick for Turk, Kmart to much of a beast for Lewis cause hes to soft, and Camby vs Howard is the only true matchup besides Melo vs Ariza that will work. So every game we will have to keep adjusting our starting lineups for different opponents. Why cant we just put in players to start for us every game, get used to each other and let them become as good as the Spurs are. They never make changes. Bowens always guard the best player( Ariza) then Parker Ginobili Duncan are their triple scoring threat (Nelson Lewis Howard) and Elson is their to help out on the boards or the easy scorers (Gortat Battie or Foyle). Robert Horry comes off the bench to knock down clutch 3s (Turkoglu). Barry and Finley off the bench to contribute points as well (Redick and Bogans). If we want to be a championship team, then we should lineup like one. Thats why i think dont fit in the starting lineup.

 

Never make changes?????????? The Spurs brought Ginobli off the bench the second half of the season and in the post season. Did you watch them at all?

 

I do see what you're saying though with your comparison to the Spurs, but the game is constantly evolving.

 

Are you serious!!!! Yea during the season they did finally this season just to give their bench a boost and started Finley in his spot. But in the playoffs were it counts the most he started. How many other changes they made beside that? Spurs dont make many changes to their lineup. They stay with their trio and we should stay with ours. We should keep and extra big in the lineup and a good defensive player to guard opponents best scorer as well. Where do Hedo fit in? Every championship the Spurs won they always had 2 bigs. Im using them as example cause the Spurs have been the champs 4 seasons of the past 9 seasons. So they would be considered a dynasty type team and thats were we want to be one day.

[Rob 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Rob:

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

quote:

Originally posted by Rob:

ok Ai would kill Nelson, Ariza will put up a good defense against Melo but might not stop him still, Smith to quick for Turk, Kmart to much of a beast for Lewis cause hes to soft, and Camby vs Howard is the only true matchup besides Melo vs Ariza that will work. So every game we will have to keep adjusting our starting lineups for different opponents. Why cant we just put in players to start for us every game, get used to each other and let them become as good as the Spurs are. They never make changes. Bowens always guard the best player( Ariza) then Parker Ginobili Duncan are their triple scoring threat (Nelson Lewis Howard) and Elson is their to help out on the boards or the easy scorers (Gortat Battie or Foyle). Robert Horry comes off the bench to knock down clutch 3s (Turkoglu). Barry and Finley off the bench to contribute points as well (Redick and Bogans). If we want to be a championship team, then we should lineup like one. Thats why i think dont fit in the starting lineup.

 

Never make changes?????????? The Spurs brought Ginobli off the bench the second half of the season and in the post season. Did you watch them at all?

 

I do see what you're saying though with your comparison to the Spurs, but the game is constantly evolving.

 

Are you serious!!!! Yea during the season they did finally this season just to give their bench a boost and started Finley in his spot. But in the playoffs were it counts the most he started. How many other changes they made beside that? Spurs dont make many changes to their lineup. They stay with their trio and we should stay with ours. We should keep and extra big in the lineup and a good defensive player to guard opponents best scorer as well. Where do Hedo fit in? Every championship the Spurs won they always had 2 bigs. Im using them as example cause the Spurs have been the champs 4 seasons of the past 9 seasons. So they would be considered a dynasty type team and thats were we want to be one day.

 

Its just that the Spurs are so damm deep in depth of scorers thats why they can bring Ginobili of the bench. If the Spurs wasnt as deep in scorers then Gino would have started every game. He still got starter minutes off the bench. Thats what the Magic should work towards doing if we dont have it already. Hedo would be huge off the bench, look how he did for the Kings. Redick is going to find his shooting touch with more minutes and bogans will contribute as well. Only thing we have that they dont is Keyon Dooling or Carlos Arroyo who can really come thru for us this season. And if Gortat impresses Van Gundy enough, then he should start at pf. I rather see him and Howard grow together to form the Magic version of the Twin Towers then seeing Battie start. My opinion is that Hedo should come of the bench.

[jmmagicfan 302]

Charisma, I like some of the points you made on the three forward concept, I am not convinced that Hedo is as versatile as you seem to think he is. He may be able to play SG/SF/PF at the offensive end, but at the defensive end he is strictly SF. He has never shown that he is quick enough to guard a SG, or that he is tough enough to guard a PF. That means that Rashard will have to take one or the other. I think he is more capable of doing so than Hedo, but you brought him here to be a consistent scorer. Do you really want to wear him down guarding out of position? I think that you currently have two locks to start - Rashard at the SF and Dwight at the PF/C. I think everything else comes down to who wins it in training camp. That means you either trade Turk for a player at a different position, or you bring him off the bench. You only play Turk and Lewis together if you are playing Phoenix. Creating offensive mismatches are all well and good, but how many championships has Phoenix won? Now, how many has San Antonio won with a role player at the PF/C position next to Tim Duncan? I rest my case.

[Rob 0]

quote:

Originally posted by jmmagicfan:

Charisma, I like some of the points you made on the three forward concept, I am not convinced that Hedo is as versatile as you seem to think he is. He may be able to play SG/SF/PF at the offensive end, but at the defensive end he is strictly SF. He has never shown that he is quick enough to guard a SG, or that he is tough enough to guard a PF. That means that Rashard will have to take one or the other. I think he is more capable of doing so than Hedo, but you brought him here to be a consistent scorer. Do you really want to wear him down guarding out of position? I think that you currently have two locks to start - Rashard at the SF and Dwight at the PF/C. I think everything else comes down to who wins it in training camp. That means you either trade Turk for a player at a different position, or you bring him off the bench. You only play Turk and Lewis together if you are playing Phoenix. Creating offensive mismatches are all well and good, but how many championships has Phoenix won? Now, how many has San Antonio won with a role player at the PF/C position next to Tim Duncan? I rest my case.

 

Magicfan im so glad you saying this. I been saying this sh** all day. But everyone wants to start Turk when he doesnt fit if you wanted to build your team like the championship team Spurs. Every championship team always had a top scorer, a good defender, a decent pg that can also score, and 2 bigs in which they also can score also a clutch 3 shooter off the bench and at least 2 other players off the bench that can contribute some points. Thats what Hedo role should be. When they signed Lewis his role now is get minutes whenever he can, however he can. Either he go along with the changes or get traded.

[jmmagicfan 302]

As a matter of fact, if he has his legs back, and is close to the player he was pre-surgery, I would put Garrity in at the PF before I put Turk there. If you throw out the injury years, Garrity was as good or even a better spot-up 3-point shooter; and a better inside (PF) defender than Turkoglu. Turk is faster, and can play more SF, but a healthy Garrity would be a better option at the PF than Turk.