fan for too long 2 532 Report post Posted December 28, 2018 1 hour ago, HeHateMe said: Not many. When Fournier’s numbers go back up to his career averages he’s not that bad. The league isn’t flooded with elite 2 guards. People always bring up CJ McCollum but go to a blazers forum and fans bash him the way we bash Fournier on here. Have either you or ftw watched Evan played this year? It seems not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adamzaz 0 Report post Posted December 28, 2018 2 hours ago, ?4thewin said: How many shooting guards are definitive upgrades to Evan? Sadly Olidipo 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmmagicfan 302 Report post Posted December 28, 2018 1 hour ago, ?4thewin said: How many shooting guards are definitive upgrades to Evan? 1 hour ago, HeHateMe said: Not many. When Fournier’s numbers go back up to his career averages he’s not that bad. The league isn’t flooded with elite 2 guards. People always bring up CJ McCollum but go to a blazers forum and fans bash him the way we bash Fournier on here. I'm assuming you mean his shooting %, because he is already above his career averages for scoring, assists, and rebounds; and yet, even though his personal numbers have improved over the last 10 games, the team has deteriorated. We can argue back & forth about his value, but his numbers don't really seem to contribute to overall win/loss. There has been a lot of talk about trading for Beal, since apparently Washington is listening to offers about everyone. There has also been talk that Portland is considering breaking up the Lilliard/McCollum duo. I doubt it would be by trading Lilliard, so that means McCollum might be available. I think either is a clear upgrade over Fournier. Jalen Brown from Boston is another who may be available that I think might be an upgrade. The question becomes what you have to give up to get one of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted December 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, fan for too long 2 said: Have either you or ftw watched Evan played this year? It seems not. Yeah. He's a good not great shooter with some ability to create a bit on offense off the dribble which separates him from the Crabbe/Lamb/Hood type shooting guards. He's a decent passer for his position. Nothing special but better than guys like Belinelli at creating for others. Can't finish through contact so he avoids it on drives which impacts his free throw rate but not his efficiency. He's developed into a decent team defender so he's typically in the right place but he doesn't really make an impact with his on ball defense on good offensive players. So he's a guy you don't really need to hide and other teams won't hunt him in the pick and roll but he's also not someone who slows better guys down. Also struggles against smaller, faster guys. Not really someone you worry about defending fours in the event of a switch that just happens from time to time in a game. He'll battle enough to make it tough on the guy. He can't run a seamless switching defense though. He's good for 17/3/3 on 37% three point shooting and 50% on twos. Also 60% at the rim. He's average to above average in many skill sets but not special at anything. This helps in some ways as he fits a wide range of philosophies but hurts him against players in the same tier he's in with more specialized skills. Basically he's in that same tier with Will Barton, both bogdanovic, Josh Richardson, etc but those guys have more pronounced strengths that give them preference in certain context. I've been in favor of moving Fournier because I think, with better point guard play, it makes more sense to fill that spot with a shooter/multi positional defender even if that player is less talented than Fournier overall. But he's still somewhere between the 12th and 20th best shooting guard in the league Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soul Bro 1,421 Report post Posted December 28, 2018 I personally don’t believe Fournier is one of our primary problems. If we can upgrade the position, great. Otherwise, the elephant in the room is that we haven’t had a legit two way point guard in ages. Not only does this hurt the development of our young guys, but it also makes us run a wacky offensive scheme that’s very reliant on Vooch and Fournier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted December 28, 2018 13 minutes ago, jmmagicfan said: I'm assuming you mean his shooting %, because he is already above his career averages for scoring, assists, and rebounds; and yet, even though his personal numbers have improved over the last 10 games, the team has deteriorated. We can argue back & forth about his value, but his numbers don't really seem to contribute to overall win/loss. There has been a lot of talk about trading for Beal, since apparently Washington is listening to offers about everyone. There has also been talk that Portland is considering breaking up the Lilliard/McCollum duo. I doubt it would be by trading Lilliard, so that means McCollum might be available. I think either is a clear upgrade over Fournier. Jalen Brown from Boston is another who may be available that I think might be an upgrade. The question becomes what you have to give up to get one of them. Doesn't really make sense to talk about him in the "how much value does he have if his improved play doesn't impact win/loss" context as that's usually reserved for "is this guy your number one option" discussion or "can you build around him". We don't talk about Fournier like that because he's a role player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmmagicfan 302 Report post Posted December 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, ?4thewin said: Doesn't really make sense to talk about him in the "how much value does he have if his improved play doesn't impact win/loss" context as that's usually reserved for "is this guy your number one option" discussion or "can you build around him". We don't talk about Fournier like that because he's a role player. But we have to talk about him that way because he doesn't seem content to be a role player, and keeps trying to play like the number one option; which he doesn't really have the ability to be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HeHateMe 697 Report post Posted December 28, 2018 1 hour ago, fan for too long 2 said: Have either you or ftw watched Evan played this year? It seems not. I did say when his shooting numbers go back to their career averages. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmmagicfan 302 Report post Posted December 28, 2018 2 hours ago, HeHateMe said: Not many. When Fournier’s numbers go back up to his career averages he’s not that bad. The league isn’t flooded with elite 2 guards. People always bring up CJ McCollum but go to a blazers forum and fans bash him the way we bash Fournier on here. 3 minutes ago, HeHateMe said: I did say when his shooting numbers go back to their career averages. Actually, you just said numbers, which is why I clarified and said that I assumed you meant his shooting % Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Okethree 76 Report post Posted December 28, 2018 1 hour ago, jmmagicfan said: I'm assuming you mean his shooting %, because he is already above his career averages for scoring, assists, and rebounds; and yet, even though his personal numbers have improved over the last 10 games, the team has deteriorated. We can argue back & forth about his value, but his numbers don't really seem to contribute to overall win/loss. There has been a lot of talk about trading for Beal, since apparently Washington is listening to offers about everyone. There has also been talk that Portland is considering breaking up the Lilliard/McCollum duo. I doubt it would be by trading Lilliard, so that means McCollum might be available. I think either is a clear upgrade over Fournier. Jalen Brown from Boston is another who may be available that I think might be an upgrade. The question becomes what you have to give up to get one of them. I would be very happy with McCollum give them something like fournier, Simmons, and our pick this year? Think he might be better without dame running the show Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmmagicfan 302 Report post Posted December 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, WarDamnMagic said: I would be very happy with McCollum give them something like fournier, Simmons, and our pick this year? Think he might be better without dame Fournier, Simmons, and the OKC pick from next year maybe. Throw in Martin and take a couple of their throw-ins to make the numbers work/open up roster spots for them. Something like this (plus the OKC pick) http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yam2nszq Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted December 28, 2018 1 hour ago, jmmagicfan said: Fournier, Simmons, and the OKC pick from next year maybe. Throw in Martin and take a couple of their throw-ins to make the numbers work/open up roster spots for them. Something like this (plus the OKC pick) http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yam2nszq Wait. You think Fournier isn't good but think Portland would agree to trade McCollum for a deal built around him? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
