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?4thewin

Official preseason thread

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5 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

I’m with you there, but I’d still like to dump Vuch.  We know his mental makeup by now, and it negatively effects the whole team.  I’d much rather see Birch.  

We have a whole month of games from last season that says we’re better without Vuch.  Team performance took a huge dive when he came back; just compare the before and after W-L record.  

I'm kind of down on Birch after watching him in summer league. 

I don't like Vuc but I think we need him in the short term for offense. I think without vucevic we're one injury away from disaster on offense as we're currently looking at a 10 man rotation with 4 players without a reliable offensive game. And our 11-15 guys in the rotation can't score at all. 

Once Isaac shows he can score, fine. But today I'm a little worried about it

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38 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

I've started fighting people on Twitter who want to dump vucevic and let Bamba start. 

It's very likely Bamba is going to be bad this year. Give him time. All I want is for him to be a more positive impact than Biyombo

Yeah there’s going to be an adjustment period but if he learns quickly and is a positive for us while learning, I sure hope we don’t see with him what we’ve seen in the past from other coaches when it comes to development and PT.

Vuch irks me but we’ll need his offense. He just needs to accept that this isn’t his team.

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2 minutes ago, Magicman28 said:

Yeah there’s going to be an adjustment period but if he learns quickly and is a positive for us while learning, I sure hope we don’t see with him what we’ve seen in the past from other coaches when it comes to development and PT.

Vuch irks me but we’ll need his offense. He just needs to accept that this isn’t his team.

Ideally we'd run a rotation where he's the first guy subbed out then have him start the second quarter and just run the offense through him against backups

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6 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

Ideally we'd run a rotation where he's the first guy subbed out then have him start the second quarter and just run the offense through him against backups

Ideally yes. Vuch tends to have his own ideas but I don’t think Clifford will be one who tolerates that mindset.

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Yeah you start

Augustin-Fournier-Isaac-Gordon-Vuc

Then after 4 minutes you go

Augustin-Fournier-Ross-Gordon-Bamba

Then

Grant-Simmons-Ross-Martin- Bamba

Then

Grant-Simmons-Ross-Isaac-vucevic

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10 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

I'm kind of down on Birch after watching him in summer league. 

I don't like Vuc but I think we need him in the short term for offense. I think without vucevic we're one injury away from disaster on offense as we're currently looking at a 10 man rotation with 4 players without a reliable offensive game. And our 11-15 guys in the rotation can't score at all. 

Once Isaac shows he can score, fine. But today I'm a little worried about it

The offense thing is s theoretical concern but the actual experience last year showed that Vuchs negatives outweighed the theoretical positives.  And Birch’s offense wasn’t that bad.  

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48 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

The offense thing is s theoretical concern but the actual experience last year showed that Vuchs negatives outweighed the theoretical positives.  And Birch’s offense wasn’t that bad.  

Birch averaged 5 points and 3 fouls per game in summer league. 

Last year he averaged 7.8 ppg in 25mpg if you only counted the 11 games he played more than 20 minutes. 

I think we overrated Birch because he looked like a competent version of Biyombo that also weirdly decided to step out and shut down giannis on the perimeter that one time. 

And I think last year the roster was a bit more offense balanced. But since we've replaced Mario and Speights with Martin and Mozgov we're a bit more offensively limited. 

If vucevic hypothetically wasn't on the team you're one wing/forward injury away from running a Grant-Ross-iwundu-Martin-Birch second unit and that not really something you want. 

 

Vucevic doesn't provide much value but he's a decent stop gap for this year. 

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Also i think there's a way to hide vucevic better than we have in the past by rotating him into a second unit filled with good perimeter defenders. Vuc got killed in the past by good athletic centers and elite guards isolating on him. Not as many of those guys on bench units. 

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Hypothetically if the magic did something like trading for Jeff Teague, pushing Augustin to the bench I'd be ok getting rid of vucevic. 

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.

@OrlandoMagic

Cliff: “If you ask guys in the NBA about ORL, with most of them the 1st guy they’re gonna talk about is Vucevic. Coaching against him, you have learn how to take him away. There’s not many guys like him. Some people are underselling how respected a player he is.”

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