2017 Official Offseason Thread

[Magicman28 295]

Yea idk why the big fuss with Fournier passing to Vuch. He's clearly the best offensive player in that starting lineup to pass to.

 

 

You pass it to Vuch when he's posting up one defender in a half court setting or when you need a easy bucket close to the basket. You also can run a pick and pop.

You don't ignore guyS consistently who are playing hard and defending and wide open to give it to Vuch who's not in good position to score because y'all are boys.

 

Or what also Fournier will do is play hero ball and either take an bad shot or get it stolen.

 

I get AG's at 29% but it's not impossible to bring that up to 32% which is respectable. Especially since AG has good technique, has worked hard on it, and shoots better on catch and shoot.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

***** it, I'm just going to do this again.

 

the defensive stats on basketball reference are flawed because they're box score derived. They use blocks, steals, and defensive rebounds as a way to measure defense along with team related +/-. The problem with this is it doesn't capture the measurement of actual on ball defense as well as it rewards/punishes every player equally on the court for the team defense.

 

so if you had a hypothetical player who held opponents to 0% shooting, another player never scored on him the entire year, but he didn't get any steals or blocks and was a positional average defensive rebounder, and was on a team that was bad defensively he would be a bad defender by defensive rating, defensive win shares, defensive box score plus minus, etc. This isn't some hidden thing, they're very upfront about it in their glossary.

 

but we do have player tracking (which isn't perfect because it just measures the closest defensive player as a defender so in situations where you have another player screw up on defense and your player is late contesting at the rim, the bucket is credited to the guy contesting at the rim, not the guy who blew the defense).

 

Player tracking shows Gordon held opponents to shooting below their averages in every area http://on.nba.com/2pguVul

 

and this is all with him defending the opponents best offensive player regardless of position.

 

Carmelo Anthony: 17 shots, 29.4 percent shooting, 19 feet average shot distance

Gordon Hayward: 6 shots, 33 percent shooting, 18 feet average shot distance

James Harden: 6 shots, 19.5 feet average shot distance

Paul George: 8 shots, 0 percent shooting, 17.4 feet average shot distance

Damian Lillard: 5 shots, 0 percent shooting, 16.2 feet average shot distance

 

also, here's video

 

http://www.nba.com/magic/video/2017/01/21/1485018381337-gordon20_20170121-1152264

[Magicman28 295]

***** it, I'm just going to do this again.

 

the defensive stats on basketball reference are flawed because they're box score derived. They use blocks, steals, and defensive rebounds as a way to measure defense along with team related +/-. The problem with this is it doesn't capture the measurement of actual on ball defense as well as it rewards/punishes every player equally on the court for the team defense.

 

so if you had a hypothetical player who held opponents to 0% shooting, another player never scored on him the entire year, but he didn't get any steals or blocks and was a positional average defensive rebounder, and was on a team that was bad defensively he would be a bad defender by defensive rating, defensive win shares, defensive box score plus minus, etc. This isn't some hidden thing, they're very upfront about it in their glossary.

 

but we do have player tracking (which isn't perfect because it just measures the closest defensive player as a defender so in situations where you have another player screw up on defense and your player is late contesting at the rim, the bucket is credited to the guy contesting at the rim, not the guy who blew the defense).

 

Player tracking shows Gordon held opponents to shooting below their averages in every area http://on.nba.com/2pguVul

 

and this is all with him defending the opponents best offensive player regardless of position.

 

Carmelo Anthony: 17 shots, 29.4 percent shooting, 19 feet average shot distance

Gordon Hayward: 6 shots, 33 percent shooting, 18 feet average shot distance

James Harden: 6 shots, 19.5 feet average shot distance

Paul George: 8 shots, 0 percent shooting, 17.4 feet average shot distance

Damian Lillard: 5 shots, 0 percent shooting, 16.2 feet average shot distance

 

 

The fact he does that against multiple positions is ridiculous.

[Franchero MVP 391]

Unfortunately

 

Then you're blind. Vuch may be our leading scorer, but he's inefficient. This is why we've been losing with Vuc as our primary scorer for the past 4-5 years. His scoring does not translate into wins. He does not make anyone better. He doesn't open up the lanes. He takes long 2's. And, his defense leaves much to be desired.

 

Fournier is his buddy-bro in real life and doesn't want to see him traded, so he tries to make him look useful. And it results in losses.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

here's more video

 

Durant http://www.nba.com/magic/video/teams/magic/2016/09/20/1474378056326-gordon2092016-787288/

 

here's him defending Schroder http://www.nba.com/magic/aaron-gordon-defense-1/

 

wiggins http://www1.nba.com/magic/es/videos/aaron-gordon/defense-minnesota-timberwolves-andrew-wiggins-block

[HeHateMe 697]

I'm not denying he's good defensively.

 

But if you wouldn't trade a guy because he's a really good defender when you can have arguably the best scoring PG in the NBA--that's just to much.

 

Defensive specialist are just that--defensive specialist. That's all Gordon is right now. He's still awkward with the ball in his hands and doesn't have any go to moves. He has no identity offensively other than being a hustle, dunk and put back scorer.

[Catalina Maria 64]

Yea idk why the big fuss with Fournier passing to Vuch. He's clearly the best offensive player in that starting lineup to pass to.

 

No

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I'm not denying he's good defensively.

 

But if you wouldn't trade a guy because he's a really good defender when you can have arguably the best scoring PG in the NBA--that's just to much.

 

Defensive specialist are just that--defensive specialist. That's all Gordon is right now. He's still awkward with the ball in his hands and doesn't have any go to moves. He has no identity offensively other than being a hustle, dunk and put back scorer.

 

we'll no, that's not what we were talking about.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

here's every unassisted made shot by Gordon that was taken greater than 10 feet on video.

 

http://on.nba.com/2u5AYCH

[HeHateMe 697]

we'll no, that's not what we were talking about.

 

Well there are like 4 people I am having that discussion with lol

[HeHateMe 697]

No

 

Please tell me whose better offensively in our starting lineup.

 

I'll hold.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Please tell me whose better offensively in our starting lineup.

 

I'll hold.

 

Fournier.