Is It Time for Rob to Go?

[Ibn Battuta 127]

I'm really saddened by the poll results.

 

We are in year 5 and most posters think we should be more patient??? I have to assume some Magic employees are influencing the poll. What a low point.

[Captain 24]

I'm really saddened by the poll results.

 

We are in year 5 and most posters think we should be more patient??? I have to assume some Magic employees are influencing the poll. What a low point.

I voted unsure and it's not because we should be more patient, but I tend to believe it's not all on rob, could it be martins, devos, or what? Idk but I do believe we should start over with the roster

[Magicman28 295]

I'm really saddened by the poll results.

 

We are in year 5 and most posters think we should be more patient??? I have to assume some Magic employees are influencing the poll. What a low point.

 

 

I'm unsure because partly of the whole Skiles hiring which I don't think was Henny's guy. I doubt Henny would've done that Harris deal otherwise.

 

I'm also waiting to see what direction he goes in trades.

[Ibn Battuta 127]

I could be wrong here but a lot of opinions on this subject seem to be weighted to the expectations of the quick hire and fire attitude of the generation, and/or the perceived (probably real) expectations of an owner who gets talked about like he's had one foot in the grave for a decade. Something doesn't work for five minutes, get rid of it wholesale.

 

We're in year 5 now. If that's your definition of quick hire and fire what's being patient? 10 more years?

 

I could have my rose-coloured glasses on, but how does one expect to get better at their job if they don't have a chance in a situation to see if it's not so much their idea that's haywire but the circumstances and (very, very obviously) the will and intent of the commodities being traded in - i.e. real life frickin' people.

 

Why should we feel sorry for a guy who has been given many years to assemble a competent front office team, who is being PAID to make the best decisions? The GM creates his circumstances and his own opportunities and yea it hasn't been much.

 

 

Do we seriously forget how long Golden State were terribly bad for, LA, the brief window 10 years ago that the Kings looked awesome, the decade plus futility of the Celtics before 2008? I could go on and on. Everyone knows that history extends beyond our patience.

 

These are all separate and case by case examples.

 

GSW changed ownership less than a decade ago and made some great moves and draft decisions. The Lakers have lots of young talent and have only been bad for three years or so. The Kings are worse than us so OK? And that was almost 15 years ago actually. The Celtics got good once Danny Ainge came on board in 2003 and. I don't understand your point with this.

 

I still feel that it is obvious that Hennigan was tied to that Skiles hire and did some things to placate him. As much as the bull**** Skiles pulled in his tenure should be stamped out by a GM, maybe his lack of longevity and comparative standing in the eyes of the organisation forced him to capitulate more than he would like.

 

If Stan Van Gundy was able to stick around while Rob Hennigan was hired and we didn't have to just hire a placeholder (I mean, they were giving a young guy a shot, it's not like it doesn't happen elsewhere), do you not think we'd be singing a slightly different tune. Yes, it's been four seasons, maybe going on 5 without a playoff appearance. But at least a year of that was tearing down the old to begin to build the new.

 

In the process of building the new you can scream til you're black and blue in the face that there were better options but lottery luck is really too fickle to hang your hat on and stating that we could swing deals and pick up free agents is futile unless you're the one trying to do them. Hennigan has made some good deals, shed all of the drek our beloved team had hanging off of it, and generally has had next to f-all to work with. We can't trade for gold with a pile of faeces.

 

ULTIMATELY, I can't say Hennigan has made a move so far that screams that the Magic have been terribly ripped off and this is year one with a new coaching group, assistants and all. Would it not be prudent, instead of constantly throwing out parts at management and coaching level, to continue to build something. You guys want them to attract free agents but if guys are constantly fired and shipped out from top to bottom no-one is going to want to come near that mess. See: Sacramento, Sterling-era LAC, post-Jordan Chicago.

 

I know the name of the game today is dealing with EVERYONE'S impatience but the perception of stability and competence has probably never been more important to very empowered individuals that happen to be basketball free agents.

 

This reads as more of a personal spin and not based on much fact. Fact is ownership has been very stable. Nobody is being impatient since we've been one of the WORST teams in the NBA in this 4 year stretch. Let me ask you, how much longer do you expect fans to continue to pay to watch this team?

[Ibn Battuta 127]

I'm unsure because partly of the whole Skiles hiring which I don't think was Henny's guy. I doubt Henny would've done that Harris deal otherwise.

 

I'm also waiting to see what direction he goes in trades.

 

I want to believe this, but ultimately the GM makes the final call and it's his reputation on the line. If he didn't want to tarnish his reputation then why make the trade? And if he really was pressured to make the trade, why did he not resign when Skiles did? To me that line of thinking leads to way more questions. I believe GMs and coaches clash all the time but the GM still makes the final call.

[Magicman28 295]

I want to believe this, but ultimately the GM makes the final call and it's his reputation on the line. If he didn't want to tarnish his reputation then why make the trade? And if he really was pressured to make the trade, why did he not resign when Skiles did? To me that line of thinking leads to way more questions. I believe GMs and coaches clash all the time but the GM still makes the final call.

 

 

Skiles contacted Martin's before Henny even met the guy and with our nepotistic tendencies, it's apparent.

 

GM 's are going to build accordingly to the coaches philosophies and vision.

[Ibn Battuta 127]

Skiles contacted Martin's before Henny even met the guy and with our nepotistic tendencies, it's apparent.

 

GM 's are going to build accordingly to the coaches philosophies and vision.

 

I don't see an inherent problem with that: a former coach asks about a vacancy and is granted an interview. It's not like he was the only candidate at the time.

 

But to the bigger point, coaches are hired to get fired. I think the average tenure of coaches is three years or similar. So with that the GMs job is still to assemble the best team. And I disagree with GMs build according to the coach. The GM and management in general are the tone-setters: they set the tone at the top of what they want to do and what players they want and what coach is best suited for the job. I'm not saying coaches don't have an input but to say that the GM build toward the coach doesn't send the right message, and would go against organizational structure.

[Magicman28 295]

I don't see an inherent problem with that: a former coach asks about a vacancy and is granted an interview. It's not like he was the only candidate at the time.

 

But to the bigger point, coaches are hired to get fired. I think the average tenure of coaches is three years or similar. So with that the GMs job is still to assemble the best team. And I disagree with GMs build according to the coach. The GM and management in general are the tone-setters: they set the tone at the top of what they want to do and what players they want and what coach is best suited for the job. I'm not saying coaches don't have an input but to say that the GM build toward the coach doesn't send the right message, and would go against organizational structure.

 

No that's exactly how it works. Coach sits down with GM and they talk about idea and may agree to some extent but an coaches philosophy is an huge guideline to personnel decisions.

[Magicman28 295]

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-power-rankings-112516/

 

23. Orlando Magic (Overall: 6-9, Last Week: 20)

 

At just 6-9 and with the playoffs remaining a goal for this franchise, the Magic have emerged as a team that would be willing to make a deal. Word on the street is that general manager Rob Hennigan may be on the hot seat, as patience has worn thin down in Orlando.

 

It's starting.

[Ibn Battuta 127]

No that's exactly how it works. Coach sits down with GM and they talk about idea and may agree to some extent but an coaches philosophy is an huge guideline to personnel decisions.

 

You're talking about a coach having quasi-GM responsibility. They do have input ("hey get this guy out he's causing a problem" or "now is a good time to trade this guy" etc.). But the coach doesn't hire the GM the GM hires him, and that's the structure/line of reporting. Else you'd have all the players screaming at the GM to/about each other.

 

I bet that if Vogel had as much say about the players as you think we'd have more than a couple of new faces. Vuc would be gone for sure.

[Magicman28 295]

You're talking about a coach having quasi-GM responsibility. They do have input ("hey get this guy out he's causing a problem" or "now is a good time to trade this guy" etc.). But the coach doesn't hire the GM the GM hires him, and that's the structure/line of reporting. Else you'd have all the players screaming at the GM to/about each other.

 

I bet that if Vogel had as much say about the players as you think we'd have more than a couple of new faces. Vuc would be gone for sure.

 

 

It's still early. Trades will probably happen.

 

Biz isn't ready offensively to take the reigns. Vogel likes bigs who can do some of the scoring.

[Ibn Battuta 127]

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-power-rankings-112516/

 

23. Orlando Magic (Overall: 6-9, Last Week: 20)

 

At just 6-9 and with the playoffs remaining a goal for this franchise, the Magic have emerged as a team that would be willing to make a deal. Word on the street is that general manager Rob Hennigan may be on the hot seat, as patience has worn thin down in Orlando.

 

It's starting.

 

I have no idea how credible this is but please let this be true.