2016-2017 Trade Idea Thread

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

You act as if finding a better GM is impossible or something. This man has legitimately done NOTHING in five years. He oversaw a poor effort to rebuild and then gave up on it to try and win now and couldn't even do that right. Also, why in the hell are you capitalizing another GM as if this team goes through GMs like the Cleveland Browns go through coaches? We've given this man FIVE DAMN YEARS. That is more than most GMs get in this league with zero winning seasons, zero playoff appearances and zero All Stars. If anything this organization has been giving GMs too damn long, they kept Otis when it was obvious he was crashing the ship and they've given Henny five years to fix his mess only to watch him create a different one.

 

I also find it funny you don't know what philosophy means.

 

Edit: Also, forget this stick by the plan nonsense. Rob abandoned his own plan this offseason in an attempt to save his job and make the playoffs. Which he FAILED at. He has no plan anymore beyond saving his ass.

 

You're making a ton of incorrect statements here.

 

1. Ownership directed a playoff push. This has been well documented.

 

2. It's highly unusual for teams to flip through gms. 17 of the current gms have been in their position for 5+ years

 

Ultimately you're just upset and feel the need to blame someone. Hennigan might be fired this summer. He might not. But the anger from you is kinda weird

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Dan Devine:

 

"When Jrue Holiday is healthy, he’s pretty much exactly the point guard I’d like to have on the team I like."

 

 

[Soul Bro 1,423]

I completely understand the frustration of Miller4Prez66. The Magic roster is a mess, and we have been one of the worst teams for 5 years. Henny holds the job of GM, which makes him responsible for the situation.

[Magicman28 295]

I completely understand the frustration of Miller4Prez66. The Magic roster is a mess, and we have been one of the worst teams for 5 years. Henny holds the job of GM, which makes him responsible for the situation.

 

 

We're all frustrated but when it blinds you from rationality, you make poor decisions or in his case, poor arguments.

 

The most successful teams practice stability and every single one of those teams has made some head scratchers along the way. What separates the Spurs/OKC's from the Kings/Knicks are stability. He was wrong there. There are quite a few teams with GMs for 5+ years and quite a few of those have weather the storm and are currently successful.

 

A Business that practices a revolving door policy accomplishes nothing, gains nothing.

 

If we look at the past few years, we can see a few things. Upper management making some of the decisions and not a good combo of luck/timing. I remember reading a quote from a GM, might've been Ainge can't remember, and he said basically luck and timing is very esstential to building a good team. Sure, you gotta be able to crunch the analytics, view film and scout players as well as negotiate but without luck and timing, you get Mario instead of Porzingis or AG instead of Wiggins/Parker or luck is on your side and you get Shaq and Penny and Dwight. The jury is still out in those two man. AG is progressing nicely and I pray Mario blows up with this promotion.

 

I have no freaking clue if Henny can fix this. I do know that the revolving door, the lack of stability, and the incapability to learn, are tough habits to break. Takes a loooong time to break from that. A lot longer than 5 years.

[South_Aussie_Magic 90]

We're all frustrated but when it blinds you from rationality, you make poor decisions or in his case, poor arguments.

 

The most successful teams practice stability and every single one of those teams has made some head scratchers along the way. What separates the Spurs/OKC's from the Kings/Knicks are stability. He was wrong there. There are quite a few teams with GMs for 5+ years and quite a few of those have weather the storm and are currently successful.

 

A Business that practices a revolving door policy accomplishes nothing, gains nothing.

 

If we look at the past few years, we can see a few things. Upper management making some of the decisions and not a good combo of luck/timing. I remember reading a quote from a GM, might've been Ainge can't remember, and he said basically luck and timing is very esstential to building a good team. Sure, you gotta be able to crunch the analytics, view film and scout players as well as negotiate but without luck and timing, you get Mario instead of Porzingis or AG instead of Wiggins/Parker or luck is on your side and you get Shaq and Penny and Dwight. The jury is still out in those two man. AG is progressing nicely and I pray Mario blows up with this promotion.

 

I have no freaking clue if Henny can fix this. I do know that the revolving door, the lack of stability, and the incapability to learn, are tough habits to break. Takes a loooong time to break from that. A lot longer than 5 years.

 

I can't thank you enough, with you one of the most experienced posters on here, for basically echoing how I feel about this situation. Cheers to you.

[Ibn Battuta 127]

You're making a ton of incorrect statements here.

 

1. Ownership directed a playoff push. This has been well documented.

 

2. It's highly unusual for teams to flip through gms. 17 of the current gms have been in their position for 5+ years

 

Ultimately you're just upset and feel the need to blame someone. Hennigan might be fired this summer. He might not. But the anger from you is kinda weird

 

1. So what if ownership directed a playoff push? Rob still didn't do it right when presumably he was given the green light to spend. Bismack Biyombo? DJ Augustin? Jeff Green? These are your answers to make the playoffs? Biyombo who had one or two good series and a journeyman point guard? I don't even care what/who Jeff Green is.

 

2. That doesn't mean all 17 of those GMs are actually worth keeping around. Are you going to argue Dell Demps, Ernie Grunfeld, and Paxson are GMs that know what they are doing? Even Ryan McDonough and Donnie Nelson have been questionable as of late. Unfortunately Hennigan and others have done enough in their position to not be fired sooner rather than later, and therein lies the problem. This is why you don't see GMs fired more often, because they do just the bare minimum to save their own behinds. Make no mistake Hennigan is not a good GM as we have five years of losing records to prove it.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

1. So what if ownership directed a playoff push? Rob still didn't do it right when presumably he was given the green light to spend. Bismack Biyombo? DJ Augustin? Jeff Green? These are your answers to make the playoffs? Biyombo who had one or two good series and a journeyman point guard? I don't even care what/who Jeff Green is.

 

2. That doesn't mean all 17 of those GMs are actually worth keeping around. Are you going to argue Dell Demps, Ernie Grunfeld, and Paxson are GMs that know what they are doing? Even Ryan McDonough and Donnie Nelson have been questionable as of late. Unfortunately Hennigan and others have done enough in their position to not be fired sooner rather than later, and therein lies the problem. This is why you don't see GMs fired more often, because they do just the bare minimum to save their own behinds. Make no mistake Hennigan is not a good GM as we have five years of losing records to prove it.

 

I don't think it's fair to say "we have 5 years of losing to prove it" when it was our intention to lose for 3 of those years, if not 4 because last year was more of a "show progress" year, not "make the playoffs". We have one year of losing to prove it and that doesn't feel like enough.

 

Maybe it's just me because I've watched fans scream for the giants to fire Jerry Reese for years after a couple bad drafts post super bowls. But that would have been a mistake too.

 

You have to be a process guy instead of a results guy. We know he's a good talent evaluator. He just hasn't put together a complete team.

[Soul Bro 1,423]

A lot of posters are projecting the success of teams like the Spurs onto our situation instead of looking at the concrete reality of where we are and how we got here. Can Henny evaluate talent? Sure. Can he build a winning team? No. I love the idea of stability and creating a winning culture, yet it's clear Henny is trying to learn on the job. I will be shocked if he's our GM next year.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

A lot of posters are projecting the success of teams like the Spurs onto our situation instead of looking at the concrete reality of where we are and how we got here. Can Henny evaluate talent? Sure. Can he build a winning team? No. I love the idea of stability and creating a winning culture, yet it's clear Henny is trying to learn on the job. I will be shocked if he's our GM next year.

 

counterpoint, if you agree he can evaluate talent, why not give him more time to see if he can build a winning team when we just gave him two years of on the job training for building a winning team?

[Magicman28 295]

A lot of posters are projecting the success of teams like the Spurs onto our situation instead of looking at the concrete reality of where we are and how we got here. Can Henny evaluate talent? Sure. Can he build a winning team? No. I love the idea of stability and creating a winning culture, yet it's clear Henny is trying to learn on the job. I will be shocked if he's our GM next year.

 

 

You like the idea of stability and creating yet you go totally against it?

[Soul Bro 1,423]

You like the idea of stability and creating yet you go totally against it?

You're still looking at this situation through the lense of idealism... The "idea" that Henny can bring stability and a winning culture. I believe the best predictor for future performance is past behavior, even considering trends and growth. In Henny's case, I believe his last two years have been his worst.

[Soul Bro 1,423]

counterpoint, if you agree he can evaluate talent, why not give him more time to see if he can build a winning team when we just gave him two years of on the job training for building a winning team?

I think it all depends on the next month. If he can convince ownership that it's in the best long term interest of the team to tank, then I'd support keeping him for another year.