2016-2017 Season Discussion Thread

[Odin 137]

these numbers are just stupid

 

http://stats.nba.com/vs/advanced/#!?TeamID=1610612753&VsPlayerID=203901&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&SeasonSegment=Post%20All-Star

 

if his play came with something tangible like improved 3 point shooting we'd be declaring him the point guard of the future.

 

When do people stop acting like he is the problem with our team?

 

If you compare him to players like Lowry, Conley, Walker, Bledsoe, Dragic, Teague, Holiday, Hill, etc. in their 3rd years he compares very well- and he is still pretty young.

 

Now if we have the chance to get a game changer in the draft who might end up like a Paul or a Westbrook or a Curry, of course you get them. Payton at his peak probably is at best a second tier PG like a Walker or Conley, but that isn't a bad position to be in.

[Odin 137]

I mean, look at this http://on.nba.com/2njtx8c

 

Payton is the most confusing player I've ever watched.

 

Look at Jameer up there on the list at 35 years old. Talk about underappreciated magic pgs.

 

I think Denver is the team I will be rooting for the most in the playoffs if they make it in. They are just outside right now.

[Magicman28 295]

When do people stop acting like he is the problem with our team?

 

If you compare him to players like Lowry, Conley, Walker, Bledsoe, Dragic, Teague, Holiday, Hill, etc. in their 3rd years he compares very well- and he is still pretty young.

 

Now if we have the chance to get a game changer in the draft who might end up like a Paul or a Westbrook or a Curry, of course you get them. Payton at his peak probably is at best a second tier PG like a Walker or Conley, but that isn't a bad position to be in.

 

 

I believe two mains reasons for that are 1. Having this production when games matter and 2. His shot.

 

I will say in defense if EP on number 1 is the offense is currently built around his strengths. That's why he's been one if not the best player since the TRoss trade.

[Air Gordon 156]

The on and off court stats are interesting. Payton's obviously been our best player post all-star, but his on/off stats might make him seem more valuable than he is because (once again!!!) backup point guard has been our most glaring weakness. DJ's regression as the season has gone on has been fascinating

[Bauncey Chillups 288]

Payton padding his stats in March long after teams have stopped taking the Magic seriously doesn't mean much. He gets lots of assists and boards and not many turnovers which boosts his advanced stats but his overall scoring inefficiency and inability to shoot hurt the team a lot.

[Magicman28 295]

Payton padding his stats in March long after teams have stopped taking the Magic seriously doesn't mean much. He gets lots of assists and boards and not many turnovers which boosts his advanced stats but his overall scoring inefficiency and inability to shoot hurt the team a lot.

 

 

Nah. Teams are still jockeying for position.

 

You're not using stat padding correctly. If I was a starter and I was 4 boards and 4 assists away from a triple double and my team was up by 20 with 2 mins to go, and I was still out there trying to gobble up boards and dishing out passes left and right to get that triple double, then yeah. Stat padding.

 

EP is doing this in game. He's just playing hard and looking for his teammates. He's competing.

 

Edit: Was gonna also add before P4TW just did, he

has the most efficient fg% on the team.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Payton padding his stats in March long after teams have stopped taking the Magic seriously doesn't mean much. He gets lots of assists and boards and not many turnovers which boosts his advanced stats but his overall scoring inefficiency and inability to shoot hurt the team a lot.

 

he has an eFG% of 53.5 post all star. that's #1 on the team.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Nah. Teams are still jockeying for position.

 

You're not using stat padding correctly. If I was a starter and I was 4 boards and 4 assists away from a triple double and my team was up by 20 with 2 mins to go, and I was still out there trying to gobble up boards and dishing out passes left and right to get that triple double, then yeah. Stat padding.

 

EP is doing this in game. He's just playing hard and looking for his teammates. He's competing.

 

He's not wrong. Payton's advanced stats are being bolstered by rebounds.

 

But that has nothing to do with his net rating. counting stats have nothing to do with net rating. it's entirely how your team performs on offense/defense while you are on the court.

 

So his play, completely removed from his actual numbers, is having a significant positive impact while he's on the court.

[Magicman28 295]

He's not wrong. Payton's advanced stats are being bolstered by rebounds.

 

But that has nothing to do with his net rating. counting stats have nothing to do with net rating. it's entirely how your team performs on offense/defense while you are on the court.

 

So his play, completely removed from his actual numbers, is having a significant positive impact while he's on the court.

 

Yeah but the term stat padding is not being correctly used here.

 

Also who cares? When did rebounds become a thing to dissect in a negative light?

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Yeah but the term stat padding is not being correctly used here.

 

Also who cares? When did rebounds become a thing to dissect in a negative light?

 

because in today's nba they're often uncontested rebounds because teams are rarely going for offensive rebounds and instead are running back on defense. So we aren't gaining anything from Payton getting a rebound. It's just a rebound that Vucevic or Gordon or Ross isn't getting. And PER, win shares, BPM, etc don't differentiate between contested and uncontested rebounds.

 

So rebounds often end up being empty calories for advanced stats.

[Magicman28 295]

because in today's nba they're often uncontested rebounds because teams are rarely going for offensive rebounds and instead are running back on defense. So we aren't gaining anything from Payton getting a rebound. It's just a rebound that Vucevic or Gordon or Ross isn't getting. And PER, win shares, BPM, etc don't differentiate between contested and uncontested rebounds.

 

So rebounds often end up being empty calories for advanced stats.

 

 

What if the rebound EP gets turns into a fast break which he either scores at the rim or assists in a score?

[Ibn Battuta 127]

Baumann is pretty dumb.

 

Also, the greater basketball world is paying attention to the wrong Philly rookie because the greater basketball world cares more about raw numbers than actual impact.

 

since the all star break, Philly has an offensive rating of 102.7 and a defensive rating of 105.5

 

Since the all star break, Saric has an offensive rating of 100.4 and a defensive rating of 106.1. When he's on the bench, philly has an offensive rating of 107.3 and a defensive rating of 104.1. Meaning they score more points and allow less points when Saric isn't playing.

 

 

However it's extremely interesting to note that when Timothe Luwawu is on the court philly has an offensive rating of 107.5 and a defensive rating of 99.2. We'll have to examine the context of these numbers more but that's pretty amazing for a player who is playing as much as he is on a team that is as bad as it is. He might be someone to keep an eye on if Philly suddenly becomes inundated with wings after this draft.

So if I'm understanding your post correctly, Baumann is "dumb" because he is ignoring one metric (off/def rating) that paints Saric unfavorably. You imply that he is looking at his overall game but that this is "dumb" because focusing on one metric (which doesn't explain everything) is a better idea. Then with that same metric another player TLC might be better but that "we'll have to examine the context" more. Where is the logic in that? All this while you ignore Baumann's statement that Saric, if on our team, would be the GMs best draft selection, which is probably true now, but will certainly be undeniable as time progresses. I suppose you'll find one stat that says one of Payton, Gordon, Hezonja, or Oladipo are better though.