2016-2017 Season Discussion Thread

[Mack1085 57]

why hinkie other than the fact he's a name you've heard of?

 

Try asking a question without being condescending. It'd be a nice change of pace for you.

 

Hinkie clearly understood that you have to have a superstar to succeed in the league and was willing to do what was necessary to give his team the best chance to acquire that star and wasn't delusional about building a championship team through free agency. This organization needs to accept that (including and especially DeVos). We are not close to being good. We are close to being middle of the pack, but we are closer to the bottom. Hinkie knows how to steer a team through being bad successfully and he surely learned some things from his experience in Philly.

 

Now go talk down to someone else who is impressed by your ability to google advanced stats.

[Murphy13 185]

I think the problem is that Hennigan tried to follow through with Hinkie's model. Hinkie got fired, and Rob felt the heat and changed directions. The problem is that while Hinkie 'lucked' out more on the draft picks, he also picked players that fit particular positions better than Rob did. Rob picked highest upside (in his opinion) players regardless of position until it was too late. Now he's left with a pg that's currently enigmatic at best, a sg that can't see the floor despite needing a shooting guard (and a coach that thinks he should be a SF), and a tweener athlete. Rob should be director of scouting somewhere, maybe even here. We need a jenga master to build a team.

[Odin 137]

I think the problem is that Hennigan tried to follow through with Hinkie's model. Hinkie got fired, and Rob felt the heat and changed directions. The problem is that while Hinkie 'lucked' out more on the draft picks, he also picked players that fit particular positions better than Rob did. Rob picked highest upside (in his opinion) players regardless of position until it was too late. Now he's left with a pg that's currently enigmatic at best, a sg that can't see the floor despite needing a shooting guard (and a coach that thinks he should be a SF), and a tweener athlete. Rob should be director of scouting somewhere, maybe even here. We need a jenga master to build a team.

 

How many PF/Centers did Hinkie draft?

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Try asking a question without being condescending. It'd be a nice change of pace for you.

 

Hinkie clearly understood that you have to have a superstar to succeed in the league and was willing to do what was necessary to give his team the best chance to acquire that star and wasn't delusional about building a championship team through free agency. This organization needs to accept that (including and especially DeVos). We are not close to being good. We are close to being middle of the pack, but we are closer to the bottom. Hinkie knows how to steer a team through being bad successfully and he surely learned some things from his experience in Philly.

 

Now go talk down to someone else who is impressed by your ability to google advanced stats.

 

Hinkie didn't do anything that you or me could have done. He sucked and then chose the players that were slotted where he was picking. MCW was a worse pick than the following 6 players drafted after him. Embiid was the correct gamble but was saric? Lavine was the proper pick there going by the "draft the highest ceiling prospect no matter what" philosophy. Most scouts had porzingis' ceiling ahead of okafor. Okafor was the safe "al Jefferson" pick.

 

Its really really difficult to convince an ownership group to play an embarrassing version of basketball for 5 years. So he deserves credit for that and he deserves credit for sticking with it when pressure mounted. But lets not act like he was a good evaluator of talent.

 

That's why we shouldn't go near hinkie.

[Murphy13 185]

How many PF/Centers did Hinkie draft?

 

2 PF's 1 Center? Exactly what you need.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

2 PF's 1 Center? Exactly what you need.

 

you forgot okafor

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I'm not trying to say anything with this. It's just crazy how close they are in per game statistics and eFG%

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Dario+Saric&player_id1_select=Dario+Saric&y1=2017&player_id1=saricda01&hint=Jeff+Green&player_id2_select=Jeff+Green&y2=2017&player_id2=greenje02

[Mack1085 57]

Hinkie didn't do anything that you or me could have done. He sucked and then chose the players that were slotted where he was picking. MCW was a worse pick than the following 6 players drafted after him. Embiid was the correct gamble but was saric? Lavine was the proper pick there going by the "draft the highest ceiling prospect no matter what" philosophy. Most scouts had porzingis' ceiling ahead of okafor. Okafor was the safe "al Jefferson" pick.

 

Its really really difficult to convince an ownership group to play an embarrassing version of basketball for 5 years. So he deserves credit for that and he deserves credit for sticking with it when pressure mounted. But lets not act like he was a good evaluator of talent.

 

That's why we shouldn't go near hinkie.

 

 

He did something Rob couldn't do. He tanked so hard he practically guaranteed his team a top 3 pick in 3 drafts, plus he turned the #11 pick (MCW) into a potential Lakers pick this year that could be as high as #4, and got his lost first round pick back from us by moving 2 spots down. And yes, he convinced ownership to be awful for 4 years and now their future looks incredible. He did better than Rob without question.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

He did something Rob couldn't do. He tanked so hard he practically guaranteed his team a top 3 pick in 3 drafts, plus he turned the #11 pick (MCW) into a potential Lakers pick this year that could be as high as #4, and got his lost first round pick back from us by moving 2 spots down. And yes, he convinced ownership to be awful for 4 years and now their future looks incredible. He did better than Rob without question.

 

I don't see how you can say that. he took the 6th and 11th player in 2013 and they turned out to be the 11th and 14th best player in that class. He had the 3rd and 10th pick in 2014 and ended up with the 10th and the 39th. he had the third pick in 2015 and ended up with the 40th ranked prospect.

 

The only reason for optimism is Embiid. To have all those lotto picks end up just Embiid is pretty crappy.

[Mack1085 57]

I don't see how you can say that. he took the 6th and 11th player in 2013 and they turned out to be the 11th and 14th best player in that class. He had the 3rd and 10th pick in 2014 and ended up with the 10th and the 39th. he had the third pick in 2015 and ended up with the 40th ranked prospect.

 

The only reason for optimism is Embiid. To have all those lotto picks end up just Embiid is pretty crappy.

 

I'd ask where you are getting those numbers but they don't pass any kind of common sense test so I really don't care. Embiid is not the 10th best prospect in his draft. Okafor is not the 40th.

 

He got Embiid and Saric. He positioned them with the chance to get Simmons (which they did). He traded a missed pick in MCW for what will likely be a very good pick this year. Which by the way, we traded our #2 pick from that same draft plus last year's lottery pick for an expiring Ibaka who most people would be thrilled to trade for a top 5 pick this draft. And he is largely responsible for a roster with far more promise than our own. If we want to win, we should tank. If we tank, we should do it as well as Hinkie did and not like Hennigan.

[Odin 137]

2 PF's 1 Center? Exactly what you need.

 

 

Here are his picks:

 

2013 PF/C- Noel (traded for Holiday)

2013 PG- MCW

2014 C- Embiid

2014 SF/PF- Saric

2015 C- Okafor

 

Noel is really a center and Saric is really a power forward. That is very front court heavy drafting. Only one of their first round draft picks was not a front court player.

 

Hennigan's record:

 

2012 PF Nicholson

2013 SG Oladipo

2014 SF/PF Aaron Gordon

2014 PG Payton

2015 SG/SF Hezonja

2016 - traded

 

While Hennigan definitely has had issues putting together good teams, he did a much better job trying to diversify the team, even if some of his picks were not perfect, and picking contributiong players. Embiid looks like the only real starter drafted by Hinkie, while Gordon, Payton, and Oladipo look like they will at least fringe starters for their careers. We will see about Saric and Hezonja if either of them can put it together.

[Odin 137]

We all know that no GM hits on every pick. However, if we were able to re-do the drafts, who was possibly better that Hennigan should possibly have drafted?

 

2012- Draymond Green,Middleton, Fournier, Crowder, Barton

2013- Antetokounmpo, Gobert, McCollum (much better offensively, horrible defensively)

2014- I still think Gordon was the correct pick here, LaVine, Nurkic, Capela, Jokic

2015- Myles Turner, Booker, Dekker (This is early, but this draft doesn't look very good right now).

 

So he could have done better, but I don't think that is a horrible drafting record.