2016 Off-Season Thread

[Jay Magic 1,254]

It is going to take a lot more than becoming a decent shooter for him to be great. Elfrid has no one great facet of his game to build on. It is going to take a compete reversal of mentality on and off the court for him to reach the upper echelon of point guards in the game.

 

Also, why do you need a line between every sentence

 

That is just the way i do things.

 

We will agree to disagree on EP.

 

As a fan i truly hope he does become something good so our team can be good again. After all that is all that matters.

[Justin Jaudon 221]

You say it like it is fact though?

 

1.Whose to say he does not become a decent shooter?

 

2.He rebounds excellent for a guard..

 

3.He is a top draw passer of the ball..

 

4.When fully switched on we have seen him be a NIGHTMARE on d.

 

5. The kid needs to improve his shooting.. IF he does that i actually think he has the potential to be very good.

 

6. Its all on him.

 

7. One thing with Rob he is a good scout of talent.. Patience is needed.

 

1. He's 22 and he's a sub-60% FT shooter, and he's just as bad from everywhere beyond 3 feet. The odds say he's never going to be a decent shooter.

 

2. No he really doesn't. He's slightly above average for a PG, but considering he's the size of a 2G, that's whatever.

 

3. He really isn't. Statistically, he's only slightly better than Jameer Nelson (as in 1% better), for a reference.

 

4. We have seen him make plays, yes. We've seen Kyrie Irving make plays too. So far shown the ability to be a really brief scary element of a boring dream.

 

5. He really does. He needs to improve from everywhere as a shooter. And if he does that, his decision making and effort still have to improve dramatically.

 

6. Yep, the whole team is apparently riding on his development. We'll see how it works out.

 

7. On what do you base this? I like Rob. I hope he's as good as people seem to think. But so far the results of his talent scouting have been very mixed. He has yet to land a good 2nd rounder, and his first rounders have been... okay, I guess. I like Dipo and Gordon, but neither has really lit the world on fire yet. I have no idea what to think of Mario, but at this point I really don't see how he's better than Myles Turner or Justice Winslow or a handful of guys who came after him. And I'm not sold on Nicholson and Elf at all. He brought in Harris, clearly chose him over Harkless, then Harris seemed to fizzle out so he traded him for expirings. He brought in Vuc, who's great on offense, but his problems defending the PnR severely limit his overall effectiveness. He traded for Fournier, who has been solid. He also signed Channing Frye and C. J. Watson. Again, on what are you basing this resounding faith in his abilities as a talent scout?

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Payton was bad

 

Payton can improve

 

Payton might not improve all that much

 

Payton is still worth betting on long term

 

Payton plays a position that would be easy to upgrade quickly in the short term.

 

 

Everybody is right. Nobody is wrong. Payton is operating in a weird position right now where he's shown enough to give people hope but not enough consistency to solidify his position.

[Justin Jaudon 221]

Payton was bad

 

Payton can improve

 

Payton might not improve all that much

 

Payton is still worth betting on long term

 

Payton plays a position that would be easy to upgrade quickly in the short term.

 

 

Payton is operating in a weird position right now where he's shown enough to give people hope but not enough consistency to solidify his position.

 

I agree with all of this. Payton has talent, and I've never advocated quitting on him. But I'm worried this organization is hitching their wagons to his development, and that's not making me comfortable with this management crew.

[Jason Funderburker 112]

I agree with all of this. Payton has talent, and I've never advocated quitting on him. But I'm worried this organization is hitching their wagons to his development, and that's not making me comfortable with this management crew.

This is my stance as well. I'm all for trying to develop Payton, despite my low expectation, but it shouldn't preclude us from upgrading and even bringing another prospect - which it seems like it is because of Rob

[Jay Magic 1,254]

1. He's 22 and he's a sub-60% FT shooter, and he's just as bad from everywhere beyond 3 feet. The odds say he's never going to be a decent shooter.

 

2. No he really doesn't. He's slightly above average for a PG, but considering he's the size of a 2G, that's whatever.

 

3. He really isn't. Statistically, he's only slightly better than Jameer Nelson (as in 1% better), for a reference.

 

4. We have seen him make plays, yes. We've seen Kyrie Irving make plays too. So far shown the ability to be a really brief scary element of a boring dream.

 

5. He really does. He needs to improve from everywhere as a shooter. And if he does that, his decision making and effort still have to improve dramatically.

 

6. Yep, the whole team is apparently riding on his development. We'll see how it works out.

 

7. On what do you base this? I like Rob. I hope he's as good as people seem to think. But so far the results of his talent scouting have been very mixed. He has yet to land a good 2nd rounder, and his first rounders have been... okay, I guess. I like Dipo and Gordon, but neither has really lit the world on fire yet. I have no idea what to think of Mario, but at this point I really don't see how he's better than Myles Turner or Justice Winslow or a handful of guys who came after him. And I'm not sold on Nicholson and Elf at all. He brought in Harris, clearly chose him over Harkless, then Harris seemed to fizzle out so he traded him for expirings. He brought in Vuc, who's great on offense, but his problems defending the PnR severely limit his overall effectiveness. He traded for Fournier, who has been solid. He also signed Channing Frye and C. J. Watson. Again, on what are you basing this resounding faith in his abilities as a talent scout?

 

 

I say scout of talent regarding the draft..

 

He has picked

 

Nicholson ( become a nba rotation player )

Oladipo ( very good / potential all star )

Gordon ( no ceiling potential )

Payton ( very good potential )

Hezjona ( very good potential )

 

In any of them drafts who would you have taken over them guys?

 

Trade wise he plucked Harris & Fournier ( won those trades )

 

Frye has been his only true mistake.

 

Watson will be better next season.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

1. He's 22 and he's a sub-60% FT shooter, and he's just as bad from everywhere beyond 3 feet. The odds say he's never going to be a decent shooter.

 

2. No he really doesn't. He's slightly above average for a PG, but considering he's the size of a 2G, that's whatever.

 

3. He really isn't. Statistically, he's only slightly better than Jameer Nelson (as in 1% better), for a reference.

 

4. We have seen him make plays, yes. We've seen Kyrie Irving make plays too. So far shown the ability to be a really brief scary element of a boring dream.

 

5. He really does. He needs to improve from everywhere as a shooter. And if he does that, his decision making and effort still have to improve dramatically.

 

6. Yep, the whole team is apparently riding on his development. We'll see how it works out.

 

7. On what do you base this? I like Rob. I hope he's as good as people seem to think. But so far the results of his talent scouting have been very mixed. He has yet to land a good 2nd rounder, and his first rounders have been... okay, I guess. I like Dipo and Gordon, but neither has really lit the world on fire yet. I have no idea what to think of Mario, but at this point I really don't see how he's better than Myles Turner or Justice Winslow or a handful of guys who came after him. And I'm not sold on Nicholson and Elf at all. He brought in Harris, clearly chose him over Harkless, then Harris seemed to fizzle out so he traded him for expirings. He brought in Vuc, who's great on offense, but his problems defending the PnR severely limit his overall effectiveness. He traded for Fournier, who has been solid. He also signed Channing Frye and C. J. Watson. Again, on what are you basing this resounding faith in his abilities as a talent scout?

 

O'quinn is a pretty good second rounder and dedmon is exactly what you hope for from your end of bench guys

[Justin Jaudon 221]

O'quinn is a pretty good second rounder and dedmon is exactly what you hope for from your end of bench guys

 

Forgot about O'quinn. I like Dedmon too. Like I said, Hennigan has not been definitively good or bad, in my opinion. He has made good moves regarding talent, and he's made bad ones.

[Mauro Pedrosa 1,035]

Didn't Payton get some love for Rookie of the Year? How does he do that if he's straight garbage as how he's being portrayed? I swear I'm missing something here.

Michael Carter Williams won a Rookie of the Year. So what?

[Justin Jaudon 221]

I say scout of talent regarding the draft..

 

He has picked

 

1. Nicholson ( become a nba rotation player )

2. Oladipo ( very good / potential all star )

3. Gordon ( no ceiling potential )

4. Payton ( very good potential )

5. Hezjona ( very good potential )

 

6. In any of them drafts who would you have taken over them guys?

 

7. Trade wise he plucked Harris & Fournier ( won those trades )

 

8. Frye has been his only true mistake.

 

9. Watson will be better next season.

 

1. NBA rotation player is nothing to hang your hat on with a mid-first-rounder, just not a black mark.

 

2. Yep, debatable he's the best player in that draft. Good pick.

 

3. Jury is still out, but so far it isn't a bust (not really out of the woods, considering the guys picked behind him, though; he's still got to play up to that potential)

 

4. I really disagree that he has very good potential. I don't see even a maxed out potential Payton being any better than Jeff Teague or Mike Conley.

 

5. He's still a baby, but that potential has barely been hinted at on the court.

 

6. In 2012: Evan Fournier, Jared Sullinger, Festus Ezili, Jae Crowder, some guy named Draymond Green, Khris Middleton, Will Barton, Mike Scott (and yes, even in 2012 I would have picked all of those guys ahead of Nicholson; I really had issues with Nicholson watching him get torched in Richmond over and over by a guy who is no longer in the league); In 2013: probably nobody, but Giannis is a nice player; In 2014: Zach Levine, Rodney Hood, and Jordan Clarkson all have more potential than Elfrid (or at least as much), and all are better players currently; In 2015: too early to tell for sure, but Stanley Johnson, Justise Winslow, Myles Turner, and probably Devin Booker all look like better players right now, with similar potential for most (maybe not Johnson, but he's going to very likely be a valuable 3 and D guy for years).

 

7. Harris, he won, I guess. But only because Milwaukee couldn't hold onto J.J. Harris is nowhere near Redick's level of player yet, though, and we no longer have anything from that trade. Fournier was a good trade, but he probably should have just drafted him before, rather than giving up assets for him two years later.

 

8. Frye certainly didn't work out, yea.

 

9. He wasn't exactly playing well before he got hurt, but sure, why not. Still, so far it's a terrible pick up, because past injury concerns have remained a problem.

[Franchero MVP 391]

Now that we know skiles hated Payton -- maybe Payton felt that dismay and it affected his game?

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Now that we know skiles hated Payton -- maybe Payton felt that dismay and it affected his game?

 

Possible. He did try to play Shabazz over him