Magicman28 295 Report post Posted January 27, 2016 Not sure if the stats prove this, but this year he seems to be very proficient driving to the hoop and scoring. Especially for a guy his size. It does seem that way. It's on the other side of the ball that seems inconsistent. Stats might prove me wrong though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJZFL 621 Report post Posted January 28, 2016 Mental issues that have nothing to do with age? They have trouble with consistency. They let failure bother them and affect future games. They have players who play phenomenally one night and the next play horribly. The world calls that immaturity and inexperience. You call it conditioning which is insane. Sacramento was conditioned to lose. Doing better this year. They must have gone to reeducation training to recondition their behavior. Milwaukee was a winning team last year doing terrible this year. They must have remembered how to lose. it has nothing to do with personnel fit. Our average age at the beginning of the season was 23.9. Here's the wins from every team under the age of 24.9 2016: 7, 20, 20, 19, 21 2015: 18, 38, 25, 16, 41 2014: 19, 34, 25, 23, 15, 29, 33, 28 2013: 27, 24, 21, 33, 45, 20, 2012: 21, 22, 26, 7, 35 2011: 55, 17, 22, 32, 41, 24, 24, 23 2010: 50, 15, 25, 40, 12 2009: 24, 54, 23, 41, 2008: 41, 37, 22, 22 2007: 24, 13, 32, 42 If youth so often coincides with losing, how can you discount it as a reason why we're doing poorly? So.....I'm not insane. I'm a little surprised that you, as a moderator, throw such terms around so casually in what's supposed to be a friendly discussion. But anyway....... I made two points, neither of which is directly addressed in your post: 1) Youth often but not always correlates with inexperience. In our case, our players may be young but the starters have reasonable NBA experience. Your chart above doesn't correct for that, so I don't know if the young teams listed above with bad records also had very little NBA experience. 2) Nowhere in my post did I come close to suggesting that any time a team goes from good to bad or vice versa that it's due to mental factors. There can be a hundred different reasons, and every situation is different. I was talking about our team only. The fact is that we allowed ourselves, for strategic reasons, to have the worst record in the league over the past 3 years. Most of our players have grown up in that system. They have seen loss after loss. When games are close, they have learned through experience that they usually lose. That's the "losing culture" that a number of us expressed concern about throughout this process. In the Charlotte game, for example, as things were starting to unravel, you could see the team tightening up. Everyone was playing not to be the one to cause a loss, rather than to take the game to the opponent. Those kinds of mental habits are difficult to break. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted January 28, 2016 So.....I'm not insane. I'm a little surprised that you, as a moderator, throw such terms around so casually in what's supposed to be a friendly discussion. But anyway....... I made two points, neither of which is directly addressed in your post: 1) Youth often but not always correlates with inexperience. In our case, our players may be young but the starters have reasonable NBA experience. Your chart above doesn't correct for that, so I don't know if the young teams listed above with bad records also had very little NBA experience. 2) Nowhere in my post did I suggest that any time a team goes from good to bad or vice versa that it's due to mental factors. There can be a hundred different reasons, and every situation is different. I was talking about our team only. The fact is that we allowed ourselves, for strategic reasons, to have the worst record in the league over the past 3 years. Most of our players have grown up in that system. They have seen loss after loss. When games are close, they have learned through experience that they usually lose. That's the "losing culture" that a number of us expressed concern about throughout this process. In the Charlotte game, for example, as things were starting to unravel, you could see the team tightening up. Everyone was playing not to be the one to cause a loss, rather than to take the game to the opponent. Those kinds of mental habits are difficult to break. 1. Age has a direct relationship with experience. None of our top players have reached physical or mental maturity. This isn't even a basketball or a sports thing. It's a human thing. Studies show the human brain isn't fully matured until 25. 2. There is no data that supports a relationship between a "losing culture" having any impact on present day performance. You're attributing multiple variables to a phenomena that doesn't exist. It's something that can be explained more easily by more immediate factors like inconsistent play due to youth and a recent slump causing anxiety when the players are presented with in game hurdles to clear. I've provided data to suggest younger teams overwhelmingly represent the league's worst teams. If you want to convince me that losing culture is a thing, please provide me with something objective to change my mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJZFL 621 Report post Posted January 28, 2016 1. Age has a direct relationship with experience. None of our top players have reached physical or mental maturity. This isn't even a basketball or a sports thing. It's a human thing. Studies show the human brain isn't fully matured until 25. 2. There is no data that supports a relationship between a "losing culture" having any impact on present day performance. You're attributing multiple variables to a phenomena that doesn't exist. It's something that can be explained more easily by more immediate factors like inconsistent play due to youth and a recent slump causing anxiety when the players are presented with in game hurdles to clear. I've provided data to suggest younger teams overwhelmingly represent the league's worst teams. If you want to convince me that losing culture is a thing, please provide me with something objective to change my mind. Fair enough. You don't believe in the concept of teams developing winning or losing cultures, so that's never concerned you regarding our rebuilding process. I do believe in that concept, and so have felt differently. Others can read this and make up their own minds (or not care about the issue at all Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted January 28, 2016 Fair enough. You don't believe in the concept of teams developing winning or losing cultures, so that's never concerned you regarding our rebuilding process. I do believe in that concept, and so have felt differently. Others can read this and make up their own minds (or not care about the issue at all Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
