Vucevic now 5th in the league in rebounding

[Ibn Battuta 127]

Fixed that for you.

 

lol!

[Johnny Castaway 31]

I've always liked this deal and have disagreed with the notion that "no trade is better than just making any trade". Having Dwight here would get us into the playoffs, not net us a single future prospect, not get rid of a LONGER bad deal such as J-Rich, and would leave a horrible taste in the eyes of fans. To let a guy play here, pay him millions of dollars, and have him disrespect the franchise would have been a slap in the face.

 

Now was the deal the best? Of course not. I'm not an idiot. But considering all the circumstances involved, I think Hennigan did a damn fine job. Bynum is an injured mess, Iggy would have solved zero, and the guys we got are all already solid rotation players. Do the draft picks kinda blow? Sure. But it's always been about OUR pick while not sacrificing development and keeping morale at a good place.

 

Not to mention we have more guys that are actually tradeable than I could remember.

 

I don't know. This whole thing really can't have a concrete answer until years from now, but as of today, I'm a fan. Vuc has been awesome. Harkless looks unpolished, but promising. He's what we all want. A guy who can be a real player. If he doesn't pan out, then oh well. It's the same as landing a lotto pick and having him be a bust. It just happens. I've always had a hard on for McBob, who I would really like to retain to play the 4 & 5 off the bench. He's the Nick Collison type guy we'll need in the future. And Afflalo despite his faults is the best SG outside of JJ we've had since T-Mac unless my mind is playing tricks on me.

 

And on a final side note, I think JV is a keeper. Guy can just coach, and you can tell the guys love playing for him. We're not going anywhere this year, yet this team still isn't getting blown out with a ton of injuries and circumstances being factored in. We continue to fight, and that boils down to values and coaching.

 

if I may, I would add that this team has shown tons of grit and, at least to me, it's fun to watch even when they're not winning ...

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

Then how can anyone truly assess the trade unless you analyze it years later after things do or don't pan out? Just because Vuc hadn't averaged a double-double at the time of the trade, does not negate that fact that he is now. You can call it dumb luck, doing your homework, whatever you want...but my understanding is that Hennigan wanted Vuc so obviously he saw something and that's how Philly got involved. Its like when we traded Gortat, you could look at the deal on paper and say damn...the Magic did alright, this guy only averages 5pts and 4rbs per game but we all knew his per game averages meant nothing and that the guy would be solid. Also I'm not sure how anyone can truly evaluate assets that have not come to fruition yet, like future draft picks and the players they might yield. I'm satisfied with the trade, it was about as good as we could do under the circumstances IMHO

 

This is the crux of the discussion at hand, and I believe it's two fold. First, there is the "present value" aspect, and the trade that takes place. The question, at the time, is "Was that a good trade, did we get acceptable value in return for the asset that was Dwight Howard", and that's a valid question to ask. Down the road, analyzing the end result years later, the question evolves and turns into "How did things turn out, how well did you manage those trade assets, and how lucky did you get".

 

They are different questions, and the end result, the way things pan out later do not impact the initial trade analysis.

 

Think of it like this, in terms of a trade asset, what has more value, a 1st round pick, or a second? An early to mid first round pick or a late round pick? Ignore the point that a late 1st rounder can sometimes be worse than an early 2nd round pick because of guaranteed money etc. We are talking about the quality of the player produced. The higher you pick, the better the talent that is available. So, in those general terms, and earlier pick is better. If I make a trade for a first round pick, or a second round pick, with the same asset, you would say that the first round pick was the better trade.

 

Now, let's say this trade went down in the 98-99 season. The first round pick turned out to be Trajan Langon, and the second round pick was Manu Ginobili. Sure, now that second round pick turned out much better, but does that mean a late second round pick (57th overall) is more valuable than the 11th overall pick?

[magicblue 315]

This is the crux of the discussion at hand, and I believe it's two fold. First, there is the "present value" aspect, and the trade that takes place. The question, at the time, is "Was that a good trade, did we get acceptable value in return for the asset that was Dwight Howard", and that's a valid question to ask. Down the road, analyzing the end result years later, the question evolves and turns into "How did things turn out, how well did you manage those trade assets, and how lucky did you get".

 

They are different questions, and the end result, the way things pan out later do not impact the initial trade analysis.

 

Think of it like this, in terms of a trade asset, what has more value, a 1st round pick, or a second? An early to mid first round pick or a late round pick? Ignore the point that a late 1st rounder can sometimes be worse than an early 2nd round pick because of guaranteed money etc. We are talking about the quality of the player produced. The higher you pick, the better the talent that is available. So, in those general terms, and earlier pick is better. If I make a trade for a first round pick, or a second round pick, with the same asset, you would say that the first round pick was the better trade.

 

Now, let's say this trade went down in the 98-99 season. The first round pick turned out to be Trajan Langon, and the second round pick was Manu Ginobili. Sure, now that second round pick turned out much better, but does that mean a late second round pick (57th overall) is more valuable than the 11th overall pick?

 

 

Yeah I get it. Its just borderline impossible to truly evaluate the trade right now when it involves future draft picks with so many protections. We ended up with three protected 1st rounders right? Would we consider it a good trade if they weren't protected and would that be enough to qualify it as a good trade? I don't know the answer, but I do tend to believe that having 3 additional 1st round picks (protected or not), having a 22 yr. old center who is averaging a double-double, a SG who's leading the team in scoring, and a young prospect in Harkless that many liked going into the draft is certainly better than letting Dwight walk for nothing and obtaining no assets. Does anyone honestly disagree with that? I realize it has no bearing on how we evaluate the actual trade, but one scenario is certainly better than the other for us moving forward.

[TheREALBrooksThompson 157]

For those on the "only time will tell" side of things: was the trade that brought Grant Hill to the Magic a bad trade?

[Soul Bro 1,422]

Fixed that for you.

 

Context is everything in this situation. The hand Hennigan was handed was terrible. I'm surprised more posters aren't recalling the awful job the Magic (Otis) did during the previous two years before Dwight's departure: pitiful and impulsive cap management (contracts) and letting Dwight hold them hostage. Yes, the trade was poor, but it was poor mostly because of the context of the situation.

[Soul Bro 1,422]

For those on the "only time will tell" side of things: was the trade that brought Grant Hill to the Magic a bad trade?

 

Terrible. I'm just glad our excitement didn't trump our medical due diligence in that situation.

[magicblue 315]

For those on the "only time will tell" side of things: was the trade that brought Grant Hill to the Magic a bad trade?

 

Interesting question since Hill was also injured at the time of the deal.

Another fair question would be who ultimately made out better in the deal? Is it more important to make a better trade on paper in the moment, or is the outcome more important?

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

For those on the "only time will tell" side of things: was the trade that brought Grant Hill to the Magic a bad trade?

 

I was going to go with that one, but someone else mentioned the Hill thing earlier in this thread, but it's a perfect example.

 

It was a great move at the time in terms of what we gave up and what we got in return.

 

Magicblue, I notice you didn't actually answer the question.

[magicblue 315]

I was going to go with that one, but someone else mentioned the Hill thing earlier in this thread, but it's a perfect example.

 

It was a great move at the time in terms of what we gave up and what we got in return.

 

Magicblue, I notice you didn't actually answer the question.

 

Obviously it was a good deal for us at the time, although we could have just signed him outright and not dealt with Detroit. Guarantee you people in Detroit were like wtf? Ben Wallace? It does support my point however that the way things look on paper at the moment aren't nearly as important as how things play out. It appeared at the time that we got the better of the deal, but ultimately it worked out better for Detroit. So which is more important, perception or reality?

[TheREALBrooksThompson 157]

Obviously it was a good deal for us at the time, although we could have just signed him outright and not dealt with Detroit. Guarantee you people in Detroit were like wtf? Ben Wallace? It does support my point however that the way things look on paper at the moment aren't nearly as important as how things play out. It appeared at the time that we got the better of the deal, but ultimately it worked out better for Detroit. So which is better, perception or reality?

 

A better question is which is more worthy of praise: making good deals that increase your team's odds of success, or being on the right side of fluke events that no one saw coming?

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

Yeah I get it. Its just borderline impossible to truly evaluate the trade right now when it involves future draft picks with so many protections. We ended up with three protected 1st rounders right? Would we consider it a good trade if they weren't protected and would that be enough to qualify it as a good trade? I don't know the answer, but I do tend to believe that having 3 additional 1st round picks (protected or not), having a 22 yr. old center who is averaging a double-double, a SG who's leading the team in scoring, and a young prospect in Harkless that many liked going into the draft is certainly better than letting Dwight walk for nothing and obtaining no assets. Does anyone honestly disagree with that? I realize it has no bearing on how we evaluate the actual trade, but one scenario is certainly better than the other for us moving forward.

 

The restrictions on those pics are horrible. We traded off a guy that was, without a doubt, the best center in the league, and one of the top three players overall. We traded him to a team that had no other way of acquiring him.

 

Letting Dwight play out his contract had it's advantages. First, you have the possibility or keeping him around with an ultimate change of heart, meaning you keep someone around who has no close "second option" in the league and, when healthy, is capable of anchoring an elite defense with no other elite defenders on the team. Second, you have a year for Henny to work his "magic" on the trade front. You also have the likelihood that an unmotivated Dwight doesn't return as quickly as he did in L.A. and still end up with a decent draft pick.

 

You also have the possibility that, while painful to watch as a fan, the situation where Dwight walks, and others as well, and we hit rock bottom, competing for last in the league, leads to much better draft picks and a better long term situation.

 

So, yeah, I can imagine a couple of scenarios where letting Dwight play out his contract turned out better than the trade we ultimately accepted.

 

That being said, the trade exception, and possibly moves my Henny could very well put us in a better position in the long run. I have my fingers crossed.