Jameer Nelson - Leadership

[Emory889 353]

Sometimes the two go hand in hand. Of course, being a leader but losing doesn't really make one fit to lead.

 

As far as this topic is concerned, Nelson is not a leader for us. At least not in the traditional sense of a leader. IMO, his job is to provide stability at the PG position and act as a liaison between the organization/coaching staff and developing players. We aren't asking Nelson to win us 50+ games because it can't be done with this roster.

 

Most people would say that providing stability at the point guard position and being a liason between the coaching staff and young players are leadership qualities.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

Sometimes the two go hand in hand. Of course, being a leader but losing doesn't really make one fit to lead.

 

As far as this topic is concerned, Nelson is not a leader for us. At least not in the traditional sense of a leader. IMO, his job is to provide stability at the PG position and act as a liaison between the organization/coaching staff and developing players. We aren't asking Nelson to win us 50+ games because it can't be done with this roster.

 

So, because our mission might be something other than win "X" amount of games, and instead, this team is more likely focused more on developing the young players, Nelson, in a leadership role and helping to advance the team goals and help develop the younger guys can't be a leader the Magic?

 

Did I get that right? So, by your definition, this team can't have a leader because they aren't going to win 50 games?

[Optimist Prime 197]

From Denton's write-up:

 

"Nobody should hang their heads because it’s not like we’re not going out there and playing hard,’’ Nelson said. ``When you get more frustrated that’s when you start pointing the finger and one thing that we’re not doing is pointing the finger. We’re in this together.’’

 

Sounds a bit different than the 'leader' of a certain team over on the West Coast.

[Emory889 353]

From Denton's write-up:

 

 

 

Sounds a bit different than the 'leader' of a certain team over on the West Coast.

 

Sure sounds like a leader to me.

[TheREALBrooksThompson 157]

Think about leadership setting the tone in the locker room. Think about how that impacts the team, particularly on the court. If I think hard enough, I could probably come up with a good example of a team that had a leader fail them, a leader trying to force his way off the team, and how it impacted that team for an entire (shortened) season.

 

I am a firm believer that having at least one guy on your team that has leadership potential is important. We seem to have three (though I'm not convinced on Big Baby yet) in Glen, Jameer and JJ and I think that's important on the younger guys, important when developing that talent and instilling good habits.

 

I think it would be a bit dishonest to completely disregard the role the media played in that fiasco and place the blame squarely on Dwight's lack of leadership skills or whatever.

 

But for the sake of argument, let's go with that and say it was at least mostly due to Dwight not being a leader. Jameer and JJ and Glen Davis were also on that team. Why were they incapable of taking leadership roles last year and softening the impact of that situation? Were they obligated to defer to Dwight because of his talent? Would a good leader not put his foot down and take care of a situation like that, even if it did involve the team's star player?

 

If leadership is a real thing that's important, and if Jameer possesses it (or JJ or Glen or whoever), this disparity must be explained.

 

It seems to me that we're talking about a concept that's at best poorly defined and even more poorly identified, and at worst a complete load of feces sprinkled with confirmation bias and glory-fetishism.

[Ibn Battuta 127]

So, because our mission might be something other than win "X" amount of games, and instead, this team is more likely focused more on developing the young players, Nelson, in a leadership role and helping to advance the team goals and help develop the younger guys can't be a leader the Magic?

 

Did I get that right? So, by your definition, this team can't have a leader because they aren't going to win 50 games?

 

I never said the team can't have a leader. You can say Nelson is a leader for us (in a way he is, I never denied that) but why not just go to the source (Vaughn and Hennigan)? I look at Nelson as an extension of Vaughn; he's more of a mentor and father-like figure for the players. Which makes sense because Nelson has been through the best and worst, so he has something to give to the team that's unique.

 

When you think of a leader in the NBA, you don't think of Nelson. You think of Kobe, Duncan, Durant, or other guys who lead their team to victory every night. Nelson was that player for us when Dwight was around, but his role is changed now.

[TheREALBrooksThompson 157]

When you think of a leader in the NBA, you don't think of Nelson. You think of Kobe, Duncan, Durant, or other guys who lead their team to victory every night.

 

There's that confirmation bias I was talking about.

[Ibn Battuta 127]

It seems to me that we're talking about a concept that's at best poorly defined and even more poorly identified, and at worst a complete load of feces sprinkled with confirmation bias and glory-fetishism.

 

I define leadership as purely results driven. It might be harsh, but how else are you going to quantify and measure success?

[Ibn Battuta 127]

There's that confirmation bias I was talking about.

 

how is it a bias if you can measure their amount of success?

[Emory889 353]

I define leadership as purely results driven. It might be harsh, but how else are you going to quantify and measure success?

 

That's just nonsense. There's lots of examples throughout history of guys that were great leaders that weren't successful in their ultimate goal.

 

Robert E Lee is widely regarded as the best general in the United States during the Civil War.....a war that he lost. The South losing the war doesn't diminish the fact that he was a great leader. The same can be said for Jameer Nelson...you can't discount his leadership ability simply because he's on a team that doesn't have the talent to win consistently. You can't quantify something intangible like leadership with tangible results because there is no way to prove one way or the other just how much of an impact those intangibles had.

[Emory889 353]

Another thing: A few people have mentioned Kobe in this thread as an example of a good leader and yet a lot of people around the league have said that Derek Fisher was just as important, if not more so, as Kobe was in a leadership role. How many wins does Derek Fisher get without Kobe? Talent and leadership do not always go together.

 

I'll take it a step further. How many superstar players have went on to become great coaches? Think that is a coincidence?

[jec 427]

It seems to me that we're talking about a concept that's at best poorly defined and even more poorly identified, and at worst a complete load of feces sprinkled with confirmation bias and glory-fetishism.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a load of ****. These are human being we are talking about who are working together, traveling together, and competing together. There's no question leadership is a factor. We just don't know what goes on behind closed doors, so it's a bit pointless to speculate and try to quantify it.