Marc Acres 3:16 418 Report post Posted May 13, 2012 Honestly, short of finding an oracle that will predict Mike wins a title for the Magic, I will never convince you that he's a better fit than Stan. To each his own. I prefer an uptempo style and believe Dwight can/will cover up his defensive shortcomings the same way Tyson Chandler did. I believe we're a good fit offensively if we brought in Nash because we'd have the guard, we'd have the athletic big man who can make all the PNR plays, and we'd have the shooters. Jason and Quentin (although years ago) had the best years of their career with Mike. Same with Duhon even. Ryan's not the most athletic guy but he can still get out in transition better than some other fours and even if he's beat, he'd be a lethal threat in the secondary break or as a floor spacer in the half court. I used a previous example of games where we scored in the 80's because they tend to exemplify, slower paced games. Not always, but I'd bet a good portion of the time they do. However, to be more exact, I looked at the 21 games we lost with Dwight on the floor this year. Give or take a game for error as I'm not a computer and may have missed a game or two. Out of the 21, we played an average pace of 87.2. That's almost 2 points lower than our 29th ranked pace of 89 for the year. Now I don't have the time to look at the wins (remember, numbers are from basketball reference, not Hollinger and only counts Dwight games), but we lost about 1/3 of our games and just some mental math, would put our pace around 20th in the league or so this year in games that we won. In games we lost, 13 were below our average pace and 8 were above. Out of the 8 games we lost at a higher pace, they were all against playoff teams. Out of the 13 we lost at a slower pace, 10 were playoff teams. Now this date in incomplete I'd agree but it does give a slight taste of potentially, at how we were not as effective in the drag-them-out games. Why do you continue to ignore the fact that we played at a higher pace when Stan first got here and that changed due to personel and not by Stan's choice? Is D'Antoni going to show up with PHX's cryo-chamber and make all of these guys older guys turn into the showtime Lakers? Even if we could agree on whether or not D'Antoni would be a good fit (and I really do not agree with that), there is no one in their right mind that can say that this would turn into a running team simply by adding D'Antoni and Nash. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanA_TBDP 12 Report post Posted May 13, 2012 Why do you continue to ignore the fact that we played at a higher pace when Stan first got here and that changed due to personel and not by Stan's choice? Is D'Antoni going to show up with PHX's cryo-chamber and make all of these guys older guys turn into the showtime Lakers? Even if we could agree on whether or not D'Antoni would be a good fit (and I really do not agree with that), there is no one in their right mind that can say that this would turn into a running team simply by adding D'Antoni and Nash. We were 9th his first year then dropped to 12th even though we brought in a guy in Mickael Pietrus who earned his contract in a faster tempo, and Courtney Lee to replace Evans and Bogans and then dropped to 17th and 18 the next two year. When Stan was in Miami, they were 15th and 23rd his two years there. I think it's pretty obvious that Stan would prefer to play a more slower, defensive minded game, get into his sets, and run his plays instead of getting out in transition and running. Jason Richardson just a year ago was putting up career best numbers in a running system and mid-way through forgot how to play basketball? I don't think he'd be putting up 20 a game anymore but adding Nash and a coach who preached transition offense instead of half-court sets, I do believe would get him going again to a better level then he is now. Jameer always looks like he's wanting to push it and if we can't keep him but do bring Ish back, that's all he does is push the tempo. I've seen Redick play in transition, Dwight would excel in it, Ryan would be a valuable piece in the secondary break. Really, the only players I don't think would find success in this system are Hedo (who should retire) and Glen unless he gets himself in as good a shape as he says he will. All of our bad contracts except for Hedo (Chris, Q, Jason) all made their money in up-tempo schemes and came here and were told to play a slower tempo. And this is not to excuse Otis who brought in guys who didn't fit, but I do believe that some of these guys could get a jolt from playing a little faster and a little less deliberate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Air Gordon 156 Report post Posted May 13, 2012 All of our bad contracts except for Hedo (Chris, Q, Jason) all made their money in up-tempo schemes and came here and were told to play a slower tempo. I'm gonna call bull**** on this one.. Duhon and Q definitely aren't fast pace players... Hedo played here for quite awhile before that big contract he got, remember?! We played fast paced with him here.. Duhon and Q are pretty much career backups/benchwarmers and J-Rich and Hedo have digressed so much the past few years it's unbelievable.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanA_TBDP 12 Report post Posted May 13, 2012 I'm gonna call bull**** on this one.. Duhon and Q definitely aren't fast pace players... Hedo played here for quite awhile before that big contract he got, remember?! We played fast paced with him here.. Duhon and Q are pretty much career backups/benchwarmers and J-Rich and Hedo have digressed so much the past few years it's unbelievable.. Duhon made his money (here) because of the numbers he put up in New York. Q made his money in New York from his days in a fast paced tempo in Phoenix and Jason was brought in here and part of the reason he was re-signed was because his numbers if Phoenix. So yes, aside from Turkoglu, are bad contracts are in part (I'd argue mostly) due to numbers/production in a fast paced system and Otis belieiving they could work in a grind-style here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butterfly 3 Report post Posted May 14, 2012 Allowing a player to dicate who coaches the Magic is not the best for the organization. I remember the Cavs firing their coach and GM and James left away. No player should have that power in the organization. Don't let the inmates run the aslyum. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanA_TBDP 12 Report post Posted May 14, 2012 Allowing a player to dicate who coaches the Magic is not the best for the organization. I remember the Cavs firing their coach and GM and James left away. No player should have that power in the organization. Don't let the inmates run the aslyum. Brown isn't a good coach. Great defensive coordinator but he is offensively inept. And Ferry and Otis made very similar moves except that when Ferry brought in guys, aside from Jamison, they didn't become totally worthless. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
30Assists 342 Report post Posted May 14, 2012 Okay, after all my Stan defense, if I were the owner/GM/authority of the Magic and it came down to the dominant big man in the league or my coach? Dominant big man wins. But no coach in the world could have turned this horror show of a roster into championship team. I mean, yeah: Orlando's the home of Disney, but that kind of stuff just doesn't happen in real li.... Wait. Waitaminute. Is Emilio Esteves available? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanA_TBDP 12 Report post Posted May 14, 2012 Okay, after all my Stan defense, if I were the owner/GM/authority of the Magic and it came down to the dominant big man in the league or my coach? Dominant big man wins. But no coach in the world could have turned this horror show of a roster into championship team. I mean, yeah: Orlando's the home of Disney, but that kind of stuff just doesn't happen in real li.... Wait. Waitaminute. Is Emilio Esteves available? We weren't a title team but we also shouldn't have been a team that really didn't surprise people when they scored under 80. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butterfly 3 Report post Posted May 14, 2012 Brown isn't a good coach. Great defensive coordinator but he is offensively inept. And Ferry and Otis made very similar moves except that when Ferry brought in guys, aside from Jamison, they didn't become totally worthless. I do not see any signs that Dwight is going to stay anyway. I am not a big fan of Stan, but give the guy some credit, he is at least loyal to the Magic. My husband believes that he is the best coach the Magic has ever had and one of the top coaches of the NBA. He knows more about basketball. I will take his word for it. If the Magic should fire SVG it should be because they believe that he is no longer an asset to the Magic, not because some moody so called "superstar" calls for it. It is my understanding that the players have stated that SVG should stay. On the other hand, Smith sould have been fired months ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanA_TBDP 12 Report post Posted May 14, 2012 I do not see any signs that Dwight is going to stay anyway. I am not a big fan of Stan, but give the guy some credit, he is at least loyal to the Magic. My husband believes that he is the best coach the Magic has ever had and one of the top coaches of the NBA. He knows more about basketball. I will take his word for it. If the Magic should fire SVG it should be because they believe that he is no longer an asset to the Magic, not because some moody so called "superstar" calls for it. It is my understanding that the players have stated that SVG should stay. On the other hand, Smith sould have been fired months ago. What the players tell the media and what the players say behind closed doors are not one in the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butterfly 3 Report post Posted May 14, 2012 What the players tell the media and what the players say behind closed doors are not one in the same. Dwight is wishy washy to say the least. I think if the lakers are outsed by the thunder, Lakers will fire Brown. I am sure they would consider SVG along with other teams. I would hate for the Magic to give up a good coach for nothing at all. I am almost certain Dwight will not sign an extension if given the choice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hybridalienhog 7 Report post Posted May 14, 2012 How funny (ironic) would it be if the Magic fire Van Gundy, the Lakers fire Brown and hire Van Gundy after losing the series to the Thunder, Howard doesn't commit long-term to Orlando, and the Magic trade Howard for Bynum? Howard would be stuck with Van Gundy after all. :tongue: 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
