A Special 10k Post, Tuesday Edition of Case Of The Mondays: Who is DoM hating now?

[Zara 74]

-So, you like Ellis?

 

:shard: :shard:

[FloridianaJones 8]

You really don't get it, do you?

 

Nah I get it, I do. I just disagree - thats what you don't get.

 

'Statistics don't lie!!!" - my economics professors (my major) from UF would tell you, sure, just like some kids are 'angelic' and NEVER lie to their parents... http://scienceblogs.com/worldsciencefestival/2010/08/85_of_statistics_are_false_or.php .... Advanced BB statistics are a GREAT measuring stick, but not some omniscient solution to 'how everything works'. (Baseball IS a bit different. but Ellis doesn't swing bats does he...?)

 

And in the curious case of Monta Ellis, who has come straight out of high school and been subsequently BURIED under bad coaching in a system that has taught him bad habits.... I watch him mercifully and see what he is capable of and do not think he 'sucks'. Just off hand, the guy is lightning quick and has above average awareness on the court - defensively and offensively... again **** you can't teach.

 

You guys can spend all your time looking up and understanding, 'win shares' and points per attempt' - while ignoring the intangibles, the chemistry, the coaching, potential. The guy still is only 26.

[TheREALBrooksThompson 157]

Points Per Attempt needs to be looked up?

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

Nah I get it, I do. I just disagree - thats what you don't get.

 

You guys can spend all your time looking up and understanding, 'win shares' and points per attempt' - while ignoring the intangibles, the chemistry, the coaching, potential. The guy still is only 26.

 

No, you don't, and it's kind of funny. Maybe you should have paid more attention in class, because your professor was correct. Statistics do not lie, but you can lie with statistics. Also, I really hope, for your sake, that you actually read that article and didn't link it in for the title alone.

[FloridianaJones 8]

No, you don't, and it's kind of funny. Maybe you should have paid more attention in class, because your professor was correct. Statistics do not lie, but you can lie with statistics. Also, I really hope, for your sake, that you actually read that article and didn't link it in for the title alone.

 

 

Whats funny is I've very clearly laid my point out for you and you have done nothing but say, 'you don't get it, lol'.

 

And yes i read the article... "Numbers don't lie, but they tell a lot of half-truths. We have been raised to think that numbers represent absolute fact, that in a math class there is one and only one correct answer. But less emphasis is put on the fact that in the real world numbers don't convey any information without units, or some other frame of reference. The blurring of the line between the number and the quantity has left us vulnerable to the ways in which statistics can deceive us. By poorly defining or incorrectly defining numbers, contemporary audiences can be manipulated into thinking opinions are fact.***"

 

the information w/o units ... THAT I HAVE ALREADY LAID OUT CLEARLY!! (despite you saying that I got my education in vain, or that 'I don't get it') hah - Monta Ellis, despite his mediocre or 'sucky' advanced statistics, has been poorly coached throughout his basketball life (I could get into more, AGAIN, but I think i've wrote enough already.)

 

I'll come back and once more if you present some sort of interesting, attractive argument as to why 'I don't get it.' ----- There really was only one guy that use to be worth spending time getting into discussions on this forum with, KillingintheNameof... who knows if he still lingers. Knowing he would probably disagree with me as well... we got into some good ones.

 

***DOM has very skillfully and attractively used statistics to CONVINCE all of you that his opinion of Monta Ellis is fact. When it is opinion.

[FloridianaJones 8]

Points Per Attempt needs to be looked up?

 

your more than welcome to pull out your calculator. i look at the box score and watch basketball games bud.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

So what you're saying is that no one is capable of accurately judging a player's performance based on, well, anything, because it is theoretically possible that the player's performance could feasibly undergo a radical transformation under different circumstances, and any discussion that doesn't implicitly state that fact is a lie.

 

Thanks. Now we don't have to discuss basketball anymore, because you've negated any possible discussion that could be had about any topic ever.

[TheREALBrooksThompson 157]

your more than welcome to pull out your calculator. i look at the box score and watch basketball games bud.

 

I'm not your bud, friend.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

SO, we're back to "anyone who uses stats to support their position, by default, does not base their opinion in watching a player, only on the stats". Your constant discrediting of all stats and people who use them in favor of a purely empirical standpoint is completely ridiculous. You see what you want to see, you remember what you want to remember, and since you refuse to entertain the ability for the inclusion of statistical data to verify your empirical data, your argument falls apart.

 

"Stats lie, I watch the games, so I know" is not support for your argument. All you've offered is excuses and anecdotal evidence which is unreliable at best and massively biased (and suffering from an extremely limited sample size) at worst.

 

Saying he is inefficient (which should be obvious if you watch Monta play) and backing that up with statistics as DoM has done is a valid and well supported position. Countering with "No he isn't, I watch him play", "He's had a bad coach" , "He might do better in a different scenario" doesn't change the truth of the situation in that he is inefficient.

 

As has been offered to you from others, it's highly likely that he would become even more inefficient given our lack of transition scoring and emphasis on half court sets. That's actually a bit more valid (being grounded in both empirical and statistical evidence) than your "he might do better" argument, and yet you ignore those positions and come back with comments like "only KiTN could argue with me" as if discrediting the people in this discussion changes the fact that you still don't get it.

[Zara 74]

Discussion:

-I like Monta.

-Man, he sucks.

-No man, I'm telling you!

 

Not a discussion:

-I like Monta.

-You're an idiot.

 

Still not a discussion:

-I like Monta.

-You're an idiot.

-Why?

-Because..

......

 

 

Civilization. It takes time.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

your more than welcome to pull out your calculator. i look at the box score

 

Why would you do that? Stats lie.

[TheREALBrooksThompson 157]

...and yet you ignore those positions and come back with comments like "only KiTN could argue with me" as if discrediting the people in this discussion changes the fact that you still don't get it.

 

Don't forget the "I majored in economics at UF, just so you know" comment. I was impressed.