MVP Race

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

K-mart sucks.

[Sabian Jackson 0]

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Foolish man-animal, you have endeavored to redefine this dicussion multiple times, and you still fail to understand why each attempt is met with a sad sigh, even amongst the other sub-creatures posting in this thread.

 

You endeavor to enforce your argument by redefining the debate to mean "Dwight most certainly CAN do this, so why doesn't he?"

 

The answer to that question is the same as the answer to the question: "Why doesn't Dwight dunk the ball on every shot, since dunking is the highest percentage shot?" or even "Why doesn't Dwight make 100% of his free throws?": Because he can't.

 

You believe that because you see Dwight making big time blocks and making it look easy that it actually is easy. This is a simply ridiculous assumption. Even if we ignore that these are world-class athletes whose shots he's having to block, simply understanding how difficult it is to block a shot, any shot, and either a) catch the ball in the air or B) have any control over where the ball is deflected is absolutely necessary understanding one should have, and having that understanding makes this argument seem ludicrous, and that's before you consider the truism that if Dwight catches the ball in mid-air, most of the time it'll be called a goal-tend whether it was one or not.

 

But for a player to have control over a deflection off a shot they have no control over and can't concretely predict the velocity or direction of, and then for you to criticize, even in a round-about fashion, why they can't/won't/don't do it every time? That's like asking a baseball player why they don't hit 100% of the pitches thrown to them into the gap in left-center field.

 

As an experiment, foolish sub-creature, go out to any basketball court with 9 other players who are in or around your skill level, or better yet, slightly below your skill level and also below your height by a few inches.

 

Now try to block their shots, but while you try to time a jump so that you can not run into a person who is moving in an determined route, and you're having to ensure that no part of your moving body touches his moving body, and while you're trying to quickly estimate timing, distance and velocity issues necessary to block a moving basketball shot at an unpredictable angle and velocity, also try to keep track of where your teammates are moving and at what speeds.

 

Did you get all that? And were able to analyze it all in the 1-2 seconds, at most, you had between when you started to rotate and when you're blocking the shot?

 

Well then congratulations, Rain Man.

 

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Two things to start with.

 

Number 1: Just because you say he can't do it, or it's difficult, doesn't make it so. When he makes something look very easy, it invariably means it is easy for him.

 

 

Number 2: I'll break this down for you simply.

Watch a basketball match, or any sport really. Then wait for a player to make a mistake, or "incorrect" decision. Now, don't tell me that the player was incapable of making the "correct" or better play, he just made the wrong decision. Decision making is a massive factor in sport, but this in no way dictates physical ability to perform an action or play.

 

Once more for you, because a player DOESN'T, does not mean he CAN'T.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

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Two things to start with.

 

Number 1: Just because you say he can't do it, or it's difficult, doesn't make it so. When he makes something look very easy, it invariably means it is easy for him.

 

Oh brother.

 

In the '95 Western Finals, Hakeem made embarrassing David Robinson look easy.

 

And yet, in their meetings outside of that one series, Hakeem in no way dominated Robinson, and Robinson would often get the best of Hakeem in individual matchups.

 

So we have to believe that Hakeem simply lacked the desire to dominate against an opposing player most of the time? So by your logic, we can conclude, beyond any reasonable doubt, that Hakeem Olajuwon didn't care about winning.

 

 

Number 2: I'll break this down for you simply.

Watch a basketball match, or any sport really. Then wait for a player to make a mistake, or "incorrect" decision. Now, don't tell me that the player was incapable of making the "correct" or better play, he just made the wrong decision. Decision making is a massive factor in sport, but this in no way dictates physical ability to perform an action or play.

 

A wide receiver who drops a pass because he tried to start running before he had control of the ball made a bad decision.

A wide receiver who drops a pass because he was sandwiched in mid-air by 2 defensive backs and simply lacked the ability to maintain a hold on the ball after the impact of those hits failed due to physical limitations.

 

Your desperate, childlike hold on this point is impressive, if sad. You've claimed Dwight blocks nearly all, then a vast majority of shots out of bounds. This has been proven, beyond any possible doubt, false. Now you hold on desperately to the idea that Dwight could, if he desired, block every shot or nearly every shot either to a teammate, and that the reason he does not is merely because he doesn't want to do so.

 

When Lord Xenu asked you to examine the amount of factors one would have to consider to even attempt such a feat, you instead chose to ignore the points in that post in favor of repeating your previous, nonsensical point.

 

Once more for you, because a player DOESN'T, does not mean he CAN'T.

 

Your logic is that merely because he doesn't, he can and chooses not to. This logic requires either several bizarre leaps in logic, a lobotomy, or both.

 

Lets follow that logic:

 

Lord Xenu does not have sex with Anne Hathaway.

 

Ergo: Lord Xenu totally COULD have sex with Anne Hathaway, but chooses not to.

 

Xenu cannot wait to tell the annoying sycophants on the Galactic Federation Senate about all the times Anne Hathaway calls him up for a booty call, only to be shot down for not being up to Xenu's high standards.

 

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[Sabian Jackson 0]

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Oh brother.

 

In the '95 Western Finals, Hakeem made embarrassing David Robinson look easy.

 

And yet, in their meetings outside of that one series, Hakeem in no way dominated Robinson, and Robinson would often get the best of Hakeem in individual matchups.

 

So we have to believe that Hakeem simply lacked the desire to dominate against an opposing player most of the time? So by your logic, we can conclude, beyond any reasonable doubt, that Hakeem Olajuwon didn't care about winning.

 

 

 

 

A wide receiver who drops a pass because he tried to start running before he had control of the ball made a bad decision.

A wide receiver who drops a pass because he was sandwiched in mid-air by 2 defensive backs and simply lacked the ability to maintain a hold on the ball after the impact of those hits failed due to physical limitations.

 

Your desperate, childlike hold on this point is impressive, if sad. You've claimed Dwight blocks nearly all, then a vast majority of shots out of bounds. This has been proven, beyond any possible doubt, false. Now you hold on desperately to the idea that Dwight could, if he desired, block every shot or nearly every shot either to a teammate, and that the reason he does not is merely because he doesn't want to do so.

 

When Lord Xenu asked you to examine the amount of factors one would have to consider to even attempt such a feat, you instead chose to ignore the points in that post in favor of repeating your previous, nonsensical point.

 

 

 

Your logic is that merely because he doesn't, he can and chooses not to. This logic requires either several bizarre leaps in logic, a lobotomy, or both.

 

Lets follow that logic:

 

Lord Xenu does not have sex with Anne Hathaway.

 

Ergo: Lord Xenu totally COULD have sex with Anne Hathaway, but chooses not to.

 

Xenu cannot wait to tell the annoying sycophants on the Galactic Federation Senate about all the times Anne Hathaway calls him up for a booty call, only to be shot down for not being up to Xenu's high standards.

 

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And you're suggesting that in every situation that he doesn't do it, its because he can't rather than because he chose not to. This is also incorrect, since you are not him, and you do not know, you are simply guessing.

 

I'm also pretty sure I didn't say he was capable of doing it every possession, I said he should try.

 

There is a difference, of which you seem incapable of picking up on, since you are so eager to debate a point, which to be fair, is largely irrelevant since I never tried to use it as a reason for him not getting the MVP. I've even highlighted that. But yet you still argue a point that neither you nor I, truly know.

 

You seem to be hammering away at it point simply because you feel the need to make yourself feel better, maybe? Life is tough.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

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It has been statistically proven that almost exactly half of Dwight's blocks end up in the hands of his teammates.

 

You have suggested that Dwight doesn't try to block shots to his teammates, and should endeavor to do so every time(presenting the assumption that YOU believe he doesn't, implying you know what he is thinking, by the way). You also heavily imply that the increase in how often he does it should be substantial.

 

So explain to Xenu how it's putting words in your mouth to suggest that a substantial increase in the number of blocks from 50% is most of the time?

 

Also: If you truly wish to continue with your backhanded insults, at least do everyone the service of ceasing to pretend you have any kind of moral high-ground.

 

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[AcuWill 45]

I'm going on what I've seen and if that is less than I thought, then so be it. Doesn't seem that way, but I'm not unwilling to change my opinion.

 

I will say that the comparison to clean blocks is probably much higher though (in regards to the percentage that go out of bounds), and the reason its so low generally, is probably because any touch on the ball counts as a block. I guess those are easier to rack up, but don't stick out as much as when he absolutely ruins the shot. In those cases though, I think he should probably try and gain possession instead, since he does seem to block shots very easily at times. And, if you can do it, why not try and do it every time?

 

Either way, I did say it shouldn't count against him in the MVP race, so I'm not entirely sure why it became a big issue.

Cognitive Dissonance -----> Self Justification

 

 

If anyone needs text books examples, you have a gold mine.

[Sabian Jackson 0]

I do find it slightly frustrating that people keep attacking the opinion I have about this. I realise some/most people disagree with me, and while I was wrong about the number of blocks that this is relevant to, I did admit I was wrong. However, just because I was wrong about the sheer number, doesn't mean the idea itself isn't worthy of thought.

 

Some of you think that perhaps it's too difficult to do, some think that by him doing it, he'll get called for goaltending all the time. While you are entitled to this opinion, I disagree. I have referred to this before, but in football (soccer) the goalkeeper is capable of catching balls similar to the ones you see howard smacking away. I do not honestly see the difference with some of those shots to shots that are in basketball.

 

But, I have seen a few examples of where my suggestion should be implemented, and these have appeared in the top 10 plays of this year for howard.

 

Both Deng shots, I believe he could've just caught. In my opinion, the difference between that shot and the ball coming down for a rebound, is quite small. I see no reason why he was incapable of catching them since he rebounds exceptionally well.

 

Heres a comparison of a couple more. Now tell me what the real difference between these two is:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ccIQeZNCIQ&feature=related

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK8rGuP5ZcQ&feature=related

 

In my mind, I do not see why he was incapable of catching the second, but the first he was. Particularly as the second one was actually probably an easier block since he was already set in position, and had to just jump.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

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So to reinforce your argument that Howard blocks too many shots out of bounds this year, you show 2 youtube clips, one from early last year and one from 2 years ago, and only one of them actually demonstrates what you're trying to argue.

 

And you think clips that didn't happen this year reinforce your opinion about this year?

 

Also, did you just imply that there are goaltending penalties in soccer?

 

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[Sabian Jackson 0]

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So to reinforce your argument that Howard blocks too many shots out of bounds this year, you show 2 youtube clips, one from early last year and one from 2 years ago, and only one of them actually demonstrates what you're trying to argue.

 

And you think clips that didn't happen this year reinforce your opinion about this year?

 

Also, did you just imply that there are goaltending penalties in soccer?

 

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No, I was demonstrating that with similar shots, some he catches, some he does not, and I ask the question of why he did not just catch the other one as well? I realise they are both old clips, but the point remains that they are similar plays. And no, I was not demonstrating my argument about them going out of bounds, since I agreed and accepted that I had underestimated how many remained inbounds. But this demonstrates again that you bash away at a point I wasn't even making anymore.

 

And lastly, I have no idea where you even remotely got the idea that I implied there was goaltending in football (soccer).

 

This just reinforces my opinion that you love to make arguments for the sake of it. I was suggesting that the flight and size of the ball can be similar to in football, and the skills dwight needs to catch the ball (which are skills he has showed) are the same as goalkeepers show in football. I believe it was Hakeem Olajuwon who said that the two skills are similar.

Care to argue with a player who actually played basketball professionally at the top of the game? Or are you going to just accept something for once?

[BMP 424]

Blocking a shot and catching a ball as a goalie are entirely different. What Hakeem meant to say is that his responsibilities at the defensive end were to protect the rim, sorta like a goalie. Learn your NBA 2k references.

[Sabian Jackson 0]

Blocking a shot and catching a ball as a goalie are entirely different. What Hakeem meant to say is that his responsibilities at the defensive end were to protect the rim, sorta like a goalie. Learn your NBA 2k references.

 

 

Oh, I see. They are different because you say so....

 

Apart from the fact that they are definitely very similar.

 

I'd also point out that Hakeem was a goalkeeper when he was younger and he apparently does mention that the skills he used then helped with his shot blocking ability. I wonder who is right in this debate? The number one shot blocker of all time, or you?

[BMP 424]

Oh, I see. They are different because you say so....

 

Apart from the fact that they are definitely very similar.

 

I'd also point out that Hakeem was a goalkeeper when he was younger and he apparently does mention that the skills he used then helped with his shot blocking ability. I wonder who is right in this debate? The number one shot blocker of all time, or you?

 

Hakeem specifically said his GOALS in soccer and defending were similar, not how it was played. Soccer helps with footwork and agility, as well as reflexes. But to say blocking a layup/jumpshot and blocking a kicked ball is just absolutely ridiculous from anyone who has any slight knowledge of both games and have played them. Besides the amount of space you have to work with, the varying speeds of the ball that are coming at you, distance, and etc, I'm actually quite convinced you're just trying to argue this because 1) you're bored or 2) you have never played either sport 3) you're very close to stupid. . .