Trey Time 186 Report post Posted March 23, 2011 Dwight, LeBron, Kobe, Dirk, Durant, and Wade all have a higher PER than Rose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Manu Ginobili 61 Report post Posted March 23, 2011 Dwight, LeBron, Kobe, Dirk, Durant, and Wade all have a higher PER than Rose. This looks like a Math forum, instead of an opinion forum. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sabian Jackson 0 Report post Posted March 23, 2011 While I do agree that Centers of Dwights calibre (of which there is only one) are at a disadvantage, I don't necessarily think that the way the league is officiated should be an argument for or against an MVP. I do however think the level of competition in a position is a relevant. I also think that people like Rose sometimes have to contend with being defended by or defending players like Wade. We all know Wade is one of the best defenders in the league, and you just have to look at the last Lakers Heat game to realize this. Kobe is possibly one of the greatest offensive players the league has ever seen, and although he is much older, Wade had his number for about 5 minutes at the end of the game. I guess the problem with Dwights performance, is that we all expect it from him. I know its a fairly weak argument against him, but we do. We are all guilty of it on this forum, because every game we simply assume he's going to show up and perform. And because he does so regularly, it doesn't really become spectacular or unusual. Perhaps because we've waited so long for this jump in performance to occur, the fact that he's doing it becomes almost like it hasn't come soon enough. I suppose in the end, I'm taking a fairly anti-Dwight approach because he is on our team, and bias becomes a fairly big issue, so I'm almost adjusting too much. It'd be interesting to see what other forums say about who is the MVP, however. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMP 424 Report post Posted March 23, 2011 I also think that people like Rose sometimes have to contend with being defended by or defending players like Wade. We all know Wade is one of the best defenders in the league, and you just have to look at the last Lakers Heat game to realize this. Kobe is possibly one of the greatest offensive players the league has ever seen, and although he is much older, Wade had his number for about 5 minutes at the end of the game. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sabian Jackson 0 Report post Posted March 23, 2011 Good contribution.... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Optimist Prime 197 Report post Posted March 24, 2011 Good contribution.... NO JOKEZ. SERIUS CONVERSASHUN PLZ. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMP 424 Report post Posted March 29, 2011 Good contribution.... How the hell do you expect me to follow up those ridiculous claims? and: http://www.magicbasketball.net/2011/03/29/derrick-rose-is-not-the-mvp/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trey Time 186 Report post Posted March 29, 2011 How the hell do you expect me to follow up those ridiculous claims? and: http://www.magicbasketball.net/2011/03/29/derrick-rose-is-not-the-mvp/ Well, Wade is a good defender, and Kobe has a legit shot at catching Kareem. He was pretty much on point with what you bolded. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GhostAnime 50 Report post Posted March 29, 2011 I think what the other guy was trying to say is that Rose has a lot more competition to go against in terms of point guards (and also being defended by guys like LeBron and Wade through courses of the game). Today, Howard is just kinda.. really one of the few good centers left in the league offensively (and defensively at times). In the East you have far too many power forwards playing center and there aren't many "shut down" centers in the league. Of course, you could argue "Well, Howard is just that good." Fair enough argument but the big men in this league compared to the past just pales in comparison. Rose has out-played guys like Chris Paul (former runner-up), Deron Williams (although I guess he was going through some things), Steve Nash (not a good defender, but still..), and many other point guards. Rose's defensive challenges are legitimate but it's hard to find an MVP that doesn't have some drawback here and then. Kobe has been selfish a few games, LeBron gambles far too much and takes far too many jump shots which ruins his efficiency from time to time, Wade gets injured too much, Dwight can be turnover prone, and Dirk's defense is by far the worst out of the entire group. Don't get me wrong, this isn't to take away from Dwight's improved offense and his importance to the team in general; I'm just saying while Rose's efficiency numbers are not impressive at first glance, the amount of guards he has to go up against and the importance he has in the offense of the Bulls in itself (most points scored for them are either from Rose or his assist I think) at least puts him in the same tier as Dwight and LeBron, imo. He is usually the guy they give the ball too at the end of the shot clock. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trey Time 186 Report post Posted March 29, 2011 Cowherd went off yesterday on how LeBron should be the MVP because he is the best player (so he thinks). Isn't what LeBron has done this year with the choking and fourth quarter collapses the exact opposite of most valuable? The one game they win down the stretch against an elite team (Lakers) they win because they didn't give LeBron the ball. How can you be the MVP when your team's strategy to win is to not allow you to touch the ball in the fourth quarter? He did however, give Dwight some love and said he could be MVP too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMP 424 Report post Posted March 29, 2011 Well, Wade is a good defender, and Kobe has a legit shot at catching Kareem. He was pretty much on point with what you bolded. Wade is far from one of the best defenders in the league and Kobe is like 38 with bad knees and broken fingers, not the elite scorer he was 4-5 years ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMP 424 Report post Posted March 29, 2011 I think what the other guy was trying to say is that Rose has a lot more competition to go against in terms of point guards (and also being defended by guys like LeBron and Wade through courses of the game). Today, Howard is just kinda.. really one of the few good centers left in the league offensively (and defensively at times). In the East you have far too many power forwards playing center and there aren't many "shut down" centers in the league. Of course, you could argue "Well, Howard is just that good." Fair enough argument but the big men in this league compared to the past just pales in comparison. Rose has out-played guys like Chris Paul (former runner-up), Deron Williams (although I guess he was going through some things), Steve Nash (not a good defender, but still..), and many other point guards. Rose's defensive challenges are legitimate but it's hard to find an MVP that doesn't have some drawback here and then. Kobe has been selfish a few games, LeBron gambles far too much and takes far too many jump shots which ruins his efficiency from time to time, Wade gets injured too much, Dwight can be turnover prone, and Dirk's defense is by far the worst out of the entire group. Don't get me wrong, this isn't to take away from Dwight's improved offense and his importance to the team in general; I'm just saying while Rose's efficiency numbers are not impressive at first glance, the amount of guards he has to go up against and the importance he has in the offense of the Bulls in itself (most points scored for them are either from Rose or his assist I think) at least puts him in the same tier as Dwight and LeBron, imo. He is usually the guy they give the ball too at the end of the shot clock. You're not taking into account current league rules, how perimeter players are defended vs. post players, how new referees are almost incompetent at being able to call elbow to elbow shooting fouls in the post and how they're extremely quickly to call minor handchecking fouls, and how the glorified 90s rarely swarmed post players the way you see now. Don't take my word for it, there are several past and current players that know just how pathetic perimeter defense has become and how easy it is for players to get to the rim/draw fouls. Stern and the NBA changed the rules to make the game more "entertaining" to watch, favoring flashy offensive wing players over boring, methodical, slow post players. Let's not pretend that today's NBA in any way disfavors Rose, because this guy would get absolutely killed during the 90s while Dwight would probably be at least a 14+ rebound/4blks rich man's Alonzo Mourning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
