fan for too long 16 Report post Posted August 4, 2010 JJ got to see playing time when he stopped being a huge liability defensively. We're not Golden State. We don't throw scrubs out on the floor and let them shoot as much as they'd like. You can't win games that way. In practice, coaches can get a feel for how players can perform. Why should a coach put a player out on the floor in a real game when he can't even handle practice? If a player doesn't perform well in practice, he most likely will not perform well in game. So did Ryan Anderson excel in practice? Is that why he got playing time over Bass in the playoffs? Well until he blew chunks and Bass replaced him and did a descent job atleast until he was lost of defensive assignments and sometimes on the low block on offense. But his limited playing time in the regular season had nothing to do with that, right in your esteemed opinion. Hee, hee. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMP 424 Report post Posted August 4, 2010 So did Ryan Anderson excel in practice? Is that why he got playing time over Bass in the playoffs? Well until he blew chunks and Bass replaced him and did a descent job atleast until he was lost of defensive assignments and sometimes on the low block on offense. But his limited playing time in the regular season had nothing to do with that, right in your esteemed opinion. Hee, hee. He wouldn't have to "excel" in practice, just do better than Bass, which doesn't seem very hard. While Anderson did play like crap at the end of the season, keep in mind he also played well as a starter and put up these numbers when playing over 20 minutes a game (10 games, 24ish mpg average): 51.3% shooting and 47.7% from 3, 5.8 rbs, and 16.8pts Bass, on the other hand, averaged these numbers playing over 20 mpg (11 games, roughly 23 mpg average): 54.1% shooting, 4.3 rebounds, 11.1 pts Anderson was far more efficient, a better rebounder, and a better scorer (when playing those minutes). Anderson proved himself with "game time", Bass did not. I'd say they're both bad defensively, so that's a wash. Both were pretty bad during the playoffs, but to back to your original question, yes, I do think Ryan outplayed Bass in practice, and that, as well as evidence from the season prior to the playoffs, was why he played more minutes than Bass during the playoffs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Da Blues Man 13 Report post Posted August 4, 2010 Look at me! Im the artist formerly known as DOM. I use hyperbole to make my points. Who cares that we're arguing about a 34 year old who slowly declined the entire year finally to the point of possibly putting up the worst stats of any point guard (starting or otherwise) in the playoffs. I only consider these points when I'm forming statistical arguments about players I dont like. Lets continue the trend of geriatric third string point guards because when Nelson misses games this year (and he will) I can't wait to see his potential 2.6 points 1.6 assists in 14 minutes per game. God forbid we grab a guy who has young legs, is able to hustle, and doesn't completely symbolize our entire team's effort during the Boston series with one notoriously poor attempt to grab a loose ball. I can't wait to toss away another first round pick for a backup point guard when we find out that White Chocolate has gone stale. JWill is being signed as a 3rd string PG. How much playing time did our 3rd string PG get in the Boston series that you are referring to? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ned Ryerson 94 Report post Posted August 4, 2010 View Postfan for too long, on 03 August 2010 - 06:23 PM, said: If you want to talk about young pg's who could blossom in a few years, then what about Randle who played on our summer league team this year. He is lightening quick and looks to be a leader and a good shooter. He would dribble circles around JWill. And much cheaper. But Oh I forgot the Magic don't develop young players unless they are a top five pick in the draft. Reply by WPMagic: Gortat and JJ disagree. Player draft pick # Chris Corchiani #36 Geert Hammink 26 Brooks Thompson 27 Rodney Dent 31 David Vaughn 25 Brian Evans 27 Ama McCaskill 49 Johnny Taylor 17 Eric Washington 47 Michael Doleac 12 Miles Simon 42 Courtney Alexander 13 Steven Hunter 15 Jeryl Sasser 22 Reece Gaines 15 Antonio Burks 36 James Augustine 41 Would all disagree with you! Then perhaps you shouldn't type using such specifics like "the Magic don't develop young players unless they are a top five pick in the draft." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ned Ryerson 94 Report post Posted August 4, 2010 Trying and doing are two different things. I am saying that they don't develop young players except for the rare occasion. Not that they don't try. Meaningful minutes in a game is where players develop not just in practice. Yes, the 2010-2011 Orlando Magic, a team that has a chance to WIN THE WHOLE FRICKIN' THING, should approach games like it's Little League and make sure the "project" players get enough run. That, my friend, is how you win it all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Hi-Top 791 Report post Posted August 4, 2010 View Postfan for too long, on 03 August 2010 - 06:23 PM, said: If you want to talk about young pg's who could blossom in a few years, then what about Randle who played on our summer league team this year. He is lightening quick and looks to be a leader and a good shooter. He would dribble circles around JWill. And much cheaper. But Oh I forgot the Magic don't develop young players unless they are a top five pick in the draft. Reply by WPMagic: Gortat and JJ disagree. Player draft pick # Chris Corchiani #36 Geert Hammink 26 Brooks Thompson 27 Rodney Dent 31 David Vaughn 25 Brian Evans 27 Ama McCaskill 49 Johnny Taylor 17 Eric Washington 47 Michael Doleac 12 Miles Simon 42 Courtney Alexander 13 Steven Hunter 15 Jeryl Sasser 22 Reece Gaines 15 Antonio Burks 36 James Augustine 41 Would all disagree with you! I'm sorry, but this is beyond ignorant. Every team in the league has a laundry list of draft pics that didn't ammount to much, and few diamonds in thr rough, players that they gave a chance, and really showed up. EVERY SINGLE TEAM. That's the nature of the draft. You make a similar list for each team in the league. Sure, you have teams that seem to be significantly better at drafting and development (like the Spurs who might be the best thing going in those departments), but to act like the list of names you posted has any sort of significance is preposterours. As a matter of fact, in terms of finding talent outside of top five pics, the Magic aren't half bad, there a little bit better than average in the league. In the past 13-14 years Orlando drafted (or traded on draft night for): JJ Redick Corey Maggette Matt Harpring Jameer Nelson Anderson Verajao ZaZa Pachulia Keith Bogans Marcin Gortat That's a pretty good group of talent that blossomed in this league. Just to prove my intial point, what about this list? Felipe Lopez Ian Mahinmi Marcus Williams Chris Carrawell Romain Sato Derrick Dial Robertas Javtokas Randy Halcomb Sergei Karaulov Bryan Bracey Giorgos Printezis Damir Markota Those are all picks by, San Antonio, who I consider to be the best in the league at finding and developing talent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted August 4, 2010 JWill is being signed as a 3rd string PG. How much playing time did our 3rd string PG get in the Boston series that you are referring to? We're speaking under the assumption that players would eventually have to play yet with third string players there's no guarantee. One must consider health history of starters when judging their replacements. It isn't likely that Dwight will miss anything more than a handful of games the entire season so we can afford to stash Orton on the bench while he learns how to walk and chew gum at the same time. With nelson, I'm sure most board members would be ecstatic if he plays 70 games this season. He's going to get injured eventually so we need capable backups. While no one can discount Williams performance as a starter this past season, his play following that stretch brings a lot of concern. His play slowly got worse as the season went on. His benchmark really needs to be around 6ppg and 4apg to be a capable backup. He exceeded this mark for the first half of the season, but in february that dipped to 5.7ppg and 2.5 apg. Post february was just a travesty. Not only did Williams production drop further, his efficiency took a major hit too. 5.2 ppg and 3.5 apg on 39% shooting; 2.6 ppg 2.6 apg 38% shooting in April. In the playoffs he went 2.6 ppg 1.6 apg and 34% shooting. The major issue here, is jason williams play the result of a long season's effect on his legs (a problem that he had to take a year off prior to his time with the magic to recover from)? Would keeping him as a third string player be enough to allow him to be healthy? If the year off from basketball only gave him three solid months of basketball how much health can he gain from four months off during the summer? What if he's required to essentially platoon with Duhon in the result of a Nelson injury? Is he capable of handling these minutes? Too many questions for me to be comfortable with the signing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fan for too long 16 Report post Posted August 4, 2010 He wouldn't have to "excel" in practice, just do better than Bass, which doesn't seem very hard. While Anderson did play like crap at the end of the season, keep in mind he also played well as a starter and put up these numbers when playing over 20 minutes a game (10 games, 24ish mpg average): 51.3% shooting and 47.7% from 3, 5.8 rbs, and 16.8pts Bass, on the other hand, averaged these numbers playing over 20 mpg (11 games, roughly 23 mpg average): 54.1% shooting, 4.3 rebounds, 11.1 pts Anderson was far more efficient, a better rebounder, and a better scorer (when playing those minutes). Anderson proved himself with "game time", Bass did not. I'd say they're both bad defensively, so that's a wash. Both were pretty bad during the playoffs, but to back to your original question, yes, I do think Ryan outplayed Bass in practice, and that, as well as evidence from the season prior to the playoffs, was why he played more minutes than Bass during the playoffs. This proves my point. Ryan deserved it because he played better in the games during the regular season. Bass in much less time on the court did not get the chance to gel with his teammates and learn where he needed to be in practice. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fan for too long 16 Report post Posted August 4, 2010 I'm sorry, but this is beyond ignorant. Every team in the league has a laundry list of draft pics that didn't ammount to much, and few diamonds in thr rough, players that they gave a chance, and really showed up. EVERY SINGLE TEAM. That's the nature of the draft. You make a similar list for each team in the league. Sure, you have teams that seem to be significantly better at drafting and development (like the Spurs who might be the best thing going in those departments), but to act like the list of names you posted has any sort of significance is preposterours. As a matter of fact, in terms of finding talent outside of top five pics, the Magic aren't half bad, there a little bit better than average in the league. In the past 13-14 years Orlando drafted (or traded on draft night for): JJ Redick Corey Maggette Matt Harpring Jameer Nelson Anderson Verajao ZaZa Pachulia Keith Bogans Marcin Gortat That's a pretty good group of talent that blossomed in this league. Just to prove my intial point, what about this list? Felipe Lopez Ian Mahinmi Marcus Williams Chris Carrawell Romain Sato Derrick Dial Robertas Javtokas Randy Halcomb Sergei Karaulov Bryan Bracey Giorgos Printezis Damir Markota Those are all picks by, San Antonio, who I consider to be the best in the league at finding and developing talent. The ones in bold we traded before they even played for us or were traded very early in their careers They were not developed by the Magic. Your point was beyond ignorant, Thanks anyway. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted August 4, 2010 This proves my point. Ryan deserved it because he played better in the games during the regular season. Bass in much less time on the court did not get the chance to gel with his teammates and learn where he needed to be in practice. no it doesn't. Ryan earned the second string spot in training camp/preseason. He then excelled as a starter. He didn't have a great second half of the season. Bass didn't learn things in practice. He was given minutes entirely because of anderson's poor second half. Bass still didn't play all that well. You're argument is that development happens in gametime. Its wrong, good play during games is the result of all of the work players put in before games. JJ didn't develop because he finally hit 2000 career minutes. He practiced specific things that would compensate for his weaknesses. He worked hard which earned him more minutes. Then he played well which earned him a steady spot in the rotation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sharp/7/shooter 23 Report post Posted August 4, 2010 This proves my point. Ryan deserved it because he played better in the games during the regular season. Bass in much less time on the court did not get the chance to gel with his teammates and learn where he needed to be in practice. They both probably battled in practice and won respect from the coaches. Each player was put in for strategical reasons. Bass was used when we needed a beast at the 4 to get in the paint and dig in. As for the playing time in games, Bass had his shot at PT because he probably met the standard in practice. He had his chance on the court and didn't meet expectations. He had some burn and for the most part, things didn't go his way. Looks like he'll get another chance this season to prove himself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BMP 424 Report post Posted August 4, 2010 This proves my point. Ryan deserved it because he played better in the games during the regular season. Bass in much less time on the court did not get the chance to gel with his teammates and learn where he needed to be in practice. How does it prove your point? Why do you think Ryan played more minutes throughout the season than Bass? Why do you think that Ryan got more minutes than Bass in the beginning of the season? Why did Ryan get to start over Bass in the first 6 games of the season when Lewis was out? Because he did better in practice, and because he was the better player. It's not because Stan thought "Hey, I bet Ryan could really be a good player. I'll find out by throwing him out there". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
