What Can Dwight Improve On?

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

Bass is everything we need, he's a good rebounder and good interior defender,

 

Neither of those statements are true.

 

Both are, you just haven't been paying attention...neither has Stan. He's the second best interior defender and rebounder this team has..yep even more so than Gortat.

 

Bass rebounds at a worse rate than Matt Barnes, and gets lost on his rotations defensively at least 4 times a game.

 

Though I'll give you credit for accusing me, of all the people on this board, of not paying attention to defense. It takes an impressive amount of ignorance to do that.

 

 

And an incredible amount of ignorance to watch an entire Magic season yet fail to realize he's second only to Dwight in both areas.

 

There's that fun word "rate", give them the same number of minutes and Bass would slaughter Barnes' rebounding "rate".

 

Rebound rate is a measure of the percentage of total available rebounds a player gets while he's on the floor, so the number of minutes two players play is completely irrelevant. If both players played enough minutes to get a reasonable measure of their impact, which they did, you can make a discernible call based on rebound rate.

 

Bass gets 7% fewer rebounds than Gortat, 1.5% fewer rebounds than Anderson, and 1% fewer rebounds than Barnes.

 

Now here comes the clue train! Last stop: you.

 

Even if we assume that Bass's rebound rate was just deflated by Dwight, Brandon Bass's career total rebound rate is 13.1, which is equal to the rebound rate Matt Barnes posted THIS YEAR. The notion that Brandon Bass is an epic rebounder, or even an above average one, is completely ridiculous, and flies completely in the face of any honest evaluation of facts both current and historical.

 

 

I'm well aware of what rebound rate means, thanks. I find the stat meaningless, not only in rebounding, in every category. There is no way to forecast what a player will do as a starter as opposed to being a bench player.

 

Until Bass gets starting minutes it's absurd to "project" what he's capable of. The mentality, the competition, the competitiveness are all skewed when you're mostly coming off the bench in garbage time as Bass did all season long. I'll go by what I SEE, not what some goofy stat geek cooked up in his basement.

 

You don't think stan see's in practice who should and shouldn't get minutes???

 

 

We dont have the luxury of starting every player on the roster because they might be good in the playoffs.

[Escobar06 2]

quote:

Originally posted by Drew Skyy:

I honestly think Dwights #1 problem is within himself. Sure, he needs to hit free throws at a better % and he needs to better his post game, but that alone isn't gonna get it done.

 

Dwight needs to mature! He needs to stop allowing the game, the refs and other players determine the outcome of his game. Bad call from the ref??? So what! Get over it! We're down by 20?? Don't throw in the towel! Someone does'nt pass to you??? Don't pout! Getting fouled hard? Grow up and realize that YOU DWIGHT are the target that the entire league is trying to take out!

 

I honestly believe when he resolves these things in his head the game will come naturally to him and he will become one of the all-time greats to dominate the game. If he does'nt, he'll still be great, but not as great.

 

I'm starting to find this argument absurd. It's so easy to say "so what, get over it" while you're watching the game all comfy in your living room. Put yourself in Dwight's shoes, he gets hacked literally non stop the entire game with very few calls when you consider the actual number of times he's hit. Then you have to throw in all of the flops that go against him, all of the touch fouls that go against him that no other star player in the league has to deal with.

 

Not a player in the league, not ONE, could "play through" the treatment Dwight gets from officiating. Look at Kobe, he's routinely in the top 3-4 in the league in terms of tech's handed out, and he gets almost EVERY call his way. Imagine if he were officiated the same way Dwight is, good Lord I can't imagine how many T's he'd get.

 

I actually believe Dwight does a very good job of keeping his cool given the beating he takes every single night.

[Escobar06 2]

quote:

Originally posted by Lewis4thewin:

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

Bass is everything we need, he's a good rebounder and good interior defender,

 

Neither of those statements are true.

 

Both are, you just haven't been paying attention...neither has Stan. He's the second best interior defender and rebounder this team has..yep even more so than Gortat.

 

Bass rebounds at a worse rate than Matt Barnes, and gets lost on his rotations defensively at least 4 times a game.

 

Though I'll give you credit for accusing me, of all the people on this board, of not paying attention to defense. It takes an impressive amount of ignorance to do that.

 

 

And an incredible amount of ignorance to watch an entire Magic season yet fail to realize he's second only to Dwight in both areas.

 

There's that fun word "rate", give them the same number of minutes and Bass would slaughter Barnes' rebounding "rate".

 

Rebound rate is a measure of the percentage of total available rebounds a player gets while he's on the floor, so the number of minutes two players play is completely irrelevant. If both players played enough minutes to get a reasonable measure of their impact, which they did, you can make a discernible call based on rebound rate.

 

Bass gets 7% fewer rebounds than Gortat, 1.5% fewer rebounds than Anderson, and 1% fewer rebounds than Barnes.

 

Now here comes the clue train! Last stop: you.

 

Even if we assume that Bass's rebound rate was just deflated by Dwight, Brandon Bass's career total rebound rate is 13.1, which is equal to the rebound rate Matt Barnes posted THIS YEAR. The notion that Brandon Bass is an epic rebounder, or even an above average one, is completely ridiculous, and flies completely in the face of any honest evaluation of facts both current and historical.

 

 

I'm well aware of what rebound rate means, thanks. I find the stat meaningless, not only in rebounding, in every category. There is no way to forecast what a player will do as a starter as opposed to being a bench player.

 

Until Bass gets starting minutes it's absurd to "project" what he's capable of. The mentality, the competition, the competitiveness are all skewed when you're mostly coming off the bench in garbage time as Bass did all season long. I'll go by what I SEE, not what some goofy stat geek cooked up in his basement.

 

You don't think stan see's in practice who should and shouldn't get minutes???

 

 

We dont have the luxury of starting every player on the roster because they might be good in the playoffs.

 

 

I do think that, I also think that there's pressure to play the guy who makes over 20 million per year instead of Bass.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

Bass is everything we need, he's a good rebounder and good interior defender,

 

Neither of those statements are true.

 

Both are, you just haven't been paying attention...neither has Stan. He's the second best interior defender and rebounder this team has..yep even more so than Gortat.

 

Bass rebounds at a worse rate than Matt Barnes, and gets lost on his rotations defensively at least 4 times a game.

 

Though I'll give you credit for accusing me, of all the people on this board, of not paying attention to defense. It takes an impressive amount of ignorance to do that.

 

 

And an incredible amount of ignorance to watch an entire Magic season yet fail to realize he's second only to Dwight in both areas.

 

There's that fun word "rate", give them the same number of minutes and Bass would slaughter Barnes' rebounding "rate".

 

Rebound rate is a measure of the percentage of total available rebounds a player gets while he's on the floor, so the number of minutes two players play is completely irrelevant. If both players played enough minutes to get a reasonable measure of their impact, which they did, you can make a discernible call based on rebound rate.

 

Bass gets 7% fewer rebounds than Gortat, 1.5% fewer rebounds than Anderson, and 1% fewer rebounds than Barnes.

 

Now here comes the clue train! Last stop: you.

 

Even if we assume that Bass's rebound rate was just deflated by Dwight, Brandon Bass's career total rebound rate is 13.1, which is equal to the rebound rate Matt Barnes posted THIS YEAR. The notion that Brandon Bass is an epic rebounder, or even an above average one, is completely ridiculous, and flies completely in the face of any honest evaluation of facts both current and historical.

 

 

I'm well aware of what rebound rate means, thanks. I find the stat meaningless, not only in rebounding, in every category. There is no way to forecast what a player will do as a starter as opposed to being a bench player.

 

Until Bass gets starting minutes it's absurd to "project" what he's capable of. The mentality, the competition, the competitiveness are all skewed when you're mostly coming off the bench in garbage time as Bass did all season long. I'll go by what I SEE, not what some goofy stat geek cooked up in his basement.

 

You just contradicted yourself. Badly.

 

Statistics are a measure of what happened. You are correct, they can't predict what a complete overhaul in a player's environment will do to that player's numbers.

 

However, you said that Bass was the best defender and rebounder besides Dwight based on what you'd seen. That's simply not possible. Given that Bass never was the starter he apparently needs to be, according to you, to be this epic rebounder and defender, there's no way you could have SEEN anything. What you actually DID see is the same thing I, and Lewis4thewin, and Ramsde and everyone else saw, and what was, equally importantly, measured by completely unbiased statistical measurement. And what he DID, which is what you would have seen, is not rebound well. In fact, for a power forward, he rebounded fairly poorly. He was 77th among power forwards in rebounds per48. That's horrible, particularly for someone you're trying to claim is a great rebounder.

 

If you want to claim that Bass would instantly improve on defense and on the boards if he was made a starter, you're welcome to argue that. I think that argument is patently ludicrous, and I have an overwhelming amount of historical evidence to back me up on that, but at least it's a claim I can't state factually is ridiculous.

 

However, the notion that Brandon Bass did anything this year that demonstrated average rebounding, let alone GOOD rebounding is a CLEARLY fallacious one. There's no way you can argue he was a good rebounder this year any more than one could argue that Jemele Hill is a good writer or that Sarah Jessica Parker doesn't look like a horse. It's simply ridiculous, and clearly, clearly wrong.

[jec 427]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

Sarah Jessica Parker... look like a horse.

 

lol

[Escobar06 2]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

Bass is everything we need, he's a good rebounder and good interior defender,

 

Neither of those statements are true.

 

Both are, you just haven't been paying attention...neither has Stan. He's the second best interior defender and rebounder this team has..yep even more so than Gortat.

 

Bass rebounds at a worse rate than Matt Barnes, and gets lost on his rotations defensively at least 4 times a game.

 

Though I'll give you credit for accusing me, of all the people on this board, of not paying attention to defense. It takes an impressive amount of ignorance to do that.

 

 

And an incredible amount of ignorance to watch an entire Magic season yet fail to realize he's second only to Dwight in both areas.

 

There's that fun word "rate", give them the same number of minutes and Bass would slaughter Barnes' rebounding "rate".

 

Rebound rate is a measure of the percentage of total available rebounds a player gets while he's on the floor, so the number of minutes two players play is completely irrelevant. If both players played enough minutes to get a reasonable measure of their impact, which they did, you can make a discernible call based on rebound rate.

 

Bass gets 7% fewer rebounds than Gortat, 1.5% fewer rebounds than Anderson, and 1% fewer rebounds than Barnes.

 

Now here comes the clue train! Last stop: you.

 

Even if we assume that Bass's rebound rate was just deflated by Dwight, Brandon Bass's career total rebound rate is 13.1, which is equal to the rebound rate Matt Barnes posted THIS YEAR. The notion that Brandon Bass is an epic rebounder, or even an above average one, is completely ridiculous, and flies completely in the face of any honest evaluation of facts both current and historical.

 

 

I'm well aware of what rebound rate means, thanks. I find the stat meaningless, not only in rebounding, in every category. There is no way to forecast what a player will do as a starter as opposed to being a bench player.

 

Until Bass gets starting minutes it's absurd to "project" what he's capable of. The mentality, the competition, the competitiveness are all skewed when you're mostly coming off the bench in garbage time as Bass did all season long. I'll go by what I SEE, not what some goofy stat geek cooked up in his basement.

 

You just contradicted yourself. Badly.

 

Statistics are a measure of what happened. You are correct, they can't predict what a complete overhaul in a player's environment will do to that player's numbers.

 

However, you said that Bass was the best defender and rebounder besides Dwight based on what you'd seen. That's simply not possible. Given that Bass never was the starter he apparently needs to be, according to you, to be this epic rebounder and defender, there's no way you could have SEEN anything. What you actually DID see is the same thing I, and Lewis4thewin, and Ramsde and everyone else saw, and what was, equally importantly, measured by completely unbiased statistical measurement. And what he DID, which is what you would have seen, is not rebound well. In fact, for a power forward, he rebounded fairly poorly. He was 77th among power forwards in rebounds per48. That's horrible, particularly for someone you're trying to claim is a great rebounder.

 

If you want to claim that Bass would instantly improve on defense and on the boards if he was made a starter, you're welcome to argue that. I think that argument is patently ludicrous, and I have an overwhelming amount of historical evidence to back me up on that, but at least it's a claim I can't state factually is ridiculous.

 

However, the notion that Brandon Bass did anything this year that demonstrated average rebounding, let alone GOOD rebounding is a CLEARLY fallacious one. There's no way you can argue he was a good rebounder this year any more than one could argue that Jemele Hill is a good writer or that Sarah Jessica Parker doesn't look like a horse. It's simply ridiculous, and clearly, clearly wrong.

 

 

I've contradicted nothing. I also never said Bass was a "great" rebounder, a word you've used twice now. I said that save for Dwight he's the best rebounder and interior defender that we have, and he is. You've stated your point twice now, I get it. You don't believe, based on some meaningless fairy tale stat such as the old "per 48" nonsense, that Bass is a capable rebounder or defender. Cool, but I believe he is and it's going to take him starting and NOT doing it to convince me I'm wrong. Using your own stats, Gortat..a guy many feel would start for well over half the teams in the NBA only gets 7 % more rebounds than Bass? A five who has him by 4-5 inches only gets 7 percent more rebounds?

 

If it ever happens, which it won't because I don't believe we'll ever run a traditional lineup out on the floor...but if Bass ever starts consistently for us I'll easily make a bet that he averages 8+ rebounds per game.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

Bass is everything we need, he's a good rebounder and good interior defender,

 

Neither of those statements are true.

 

Both are, you just haven't been paying attention...neither has Stan. He's the second best interior defender and rebounder this team has..yep even more so than Gortat.

 

Bass rebounds at a worse rate than Matt Barnes, and gets lost on his rotations defensively at least 4 times a game.

 

Though I'll give you credit for accusing me, of all the people on this board, of not paying attention to defense. It takes an impressive amount of ignorance to do that.

 

 

And an incredible amount of ignorance to watch an entire Magic season yet fail to realize he's second only to Dwight in both areas.

 

There's that fun word "rate", give them the same number of minutes and Bass would slaughter Barnes' rebounding "rate".

 

Rebound rate is a measure of the percentage of total available rebounds a player gets while he's on the floor, so the number of minutes two players play is completely irrelevant. If both players played enough minutes to get a reasonable measure of their impact, which they did, you can make a discernible call based on rebound rate.

 

Bass gets 7% fewer rebounds than Gortat, 1.5% fewer rebounds than Anderson, and 1% fewer rebounds than Barnes.

 

Now here comes the clue train! Last stop: you.

 

Even if we assume that Bass's rebound rate was just deflated by Dwight, Brandon Bass's career total rebound rate is 13.1, which is equal to the rebound rate Matt Barnes posted THIS YEAR. The notion that Brandon Bass is an epic rebounder, or even an above average one, is completely ridiculous, and flies completely in the face of any honest evaluation of facts both current and historical.

 

 

I'm well aware of what rebound rate means, thanks. I find the stat meaningless, not only in rebounding, in every category. There is no way to forecast what a player will do as a starter as opposed to being a bench player.

 

Until Bass gets starting minutes it's absurd to "project" what he's capable of. The mentality, the competition, the competitiveness are all skewed when you're mostly coming off the bench in garbage time as Bass did all season long. I'll go by what I SEE, not what some goofy stat geek cooked up in his basement.

 

You just contradicted yourself. Badly.

 

Statistics are a measure of what happened. You are correct, they can't predict what a complete overhaul in a player's environment will do to that player's numbers.

 

However, you said that Bass was the best defender and rebounder besides Dwight based on what you'd seen. That's simply not possible. Given that Bass never was the starter he apparently needs to be, according to you, to be this epic rebounder and defender, there's no way you could have SEEN anything. What you actually DID see is the same thing I, and Lewis4thewin, and Ramsde and everyone else saw, and what was, equally importantly, measured by completely unbiased statistical measurement. And what he DID, which is what you would have seen, is not rebound well. In fact, for a power forward, he rebounded fairly poorly. He was 77th among power forwards in rebounds per48. That's horrible, particularly for someone you're trying to claim is a great rebounder.

 

If you want to claim that Bass would instantly improve on defense and on the boards if he was made a starter, you're welcome to argue that. I think that argument is patently ludicrous, and I have an overwhelming amount of historical evidence to back me up on that, but at least it's a claim I can't state factually is ridiculous.

 

However, the notion that Brandon Bass did anything this year that demonstrated average rebounding, let alone GOOD rebounding is a CLEARLY fallacious one. There's no way you can argue he was a good rebounder this year any more than one could argue that Jemele Hill is a good writer or that Sarah Jessica Parker doesn't look like a horse. It's simply ridiculous, and clearly, clearly wrong.

 

 

I've contradicted nothing. I also never said Bass was a "great" rebounder, a word you've used twice now. I said that save for Dwight he's the best rebounder and interior defender that we have, and he is. You've stated your point twice now, I get it. You don't believe, based on some meaningless fairy tale stat such as the old "per 48" nonsense, that Bass is a capable rebounder or defender. Cool, but I believe he is and it's going to take him starting and NOT doing it to convince me I'm wrong. Using your own stats, Gortat..a guy many feel would start for well over half the teams in the NBA only gets 7 % more rebounds than Bass? A five who has him by 4-5 inches only gets 7 percent more rebounds?

 

If it ever happens, which it won't because I don't believe we'll ever run a traditional lineup out on the floor...but if Bass ever starts consistently for us I'll easily make a bet that he averages 8+ rebounds per game.

 

bass started three games this year. in 24.5 minutes per game he averages 3 rebounds

 

in 2007 he started one game and had 5 rebounds in 29 minutes

 

in 2006 he started 3 games and averaged 3.3 rebounds.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

also, in 38 minutes of playing time in the playoffs, bass has 8 total rebounds.

 

the atlanta and boston series anderson played a total 37 minutes and had 22 rebounds.

[Drew Skyy 1]

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

quote:

Originally posted by Drew Skyy:

I honestly think Dwights #1 problem is within himself. Sure, he needs to hit free throws at a better % and he needs to better his post game, but that alone isn't gonna get it done.

 

Dwight needs to mature! He needs to stop allowing the game, the refs and other players determine the outcome of his game. Bad call from the ref??? So what! Get over it! We're down by 20?? Don't throw in the towel! Someone does'nt pass to you??? Don't pout! Getting fouled hard? Grow up and realize that YOU DWIGHT are the target that the entire league is trying to take out!

 

I honestly believe when he resolves these things in his head the game will come naturally to him and he will become one of the all-time greats to dominate the game. If he does'nt, he'll still be great, but not as great.

 

I'm starting to find this argument absurd. It's so easy to say "so what, get over it" while you're watching the game all comfy in your living room. Put yourself in Dwight's shoes, he gets hacked literally non stop the entire game with very few calls when you consider the actual number of times he's hit. Then you have to throw in all of the flops that go against him, all of the touch fouls that go against him that no other star player in the league has to deal with.

 

Not a player in the league, not ONE, could "play through" the treatment Dwight gets from officiating. Look at Kobe, he's routinely in the top 3-4 in the league in terms of tech's handed out, and he gets almost EVERY call his way. Imagine if he were officiated the same way Dwight is, good Lord I can't imagine how many T's he'd get.

 

I actually believe Dwight does a very good job of keeping his cool given the beating he takes every single night.

 

I never said that he doesn't keep his cool. That was'nt my point. I do see where you are coming from because I played ball through school and league ball later on. I know what it feels like to get hacked by someone that is 8-10" taller and out-weighs me by 50-60lbs. It happened quite frequently. So in a way I have the ability to look at it from Dwights point of view.

 

As far as his treatment from the officials.... It sux, but so what! Six years this kid has been in the league and the officials have yet to make adjustments for him. He can complain from now until the cows come home and it will change nothing. That said, he (Dwight) needs to re-direct his focus from the officials and everyone else and place it on himself and his game. Can you realy argue with that?

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

Using your own stats, Gortat..a guy many feel would start for well over half the teams in the NBA only gets 7 % more rebounds than Bass? A five who has him by 4-5 inches only gets 7 percent more rebounds?

 

Yes, 7% more rebounds. As in, for every 100 rebounds that are available while Bass and Gortat are on the floor together, Gortat will get 7 more than Bass does. That's a gargantuan number. Hell, 7% is the exact difference between Bass and the worst rebounder on the ****ing team.

 

Also, would you like to know how many rebounds Bass averaged in his 3 starts this year?

 

Three.

 

So at this point, basically you're saying "We should start Bass because of my imagination!", which is stupid on pretty much every conceivable level.

 

And yes, saying that you saw something from a player coming off the bench, and then saying you need that player to start to be able to see it is a pretty big contradiction.

[Escobar06 2]

quote:

Originally posted by Lewis4thewin:

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

Bass is everything we need, he's a good rebounder and good interior defender,

 

Neither of those statements are true.

 

Both are, you just haven't been paying attention...neither has Stan. He's the second best interior defender and rebounder this team has..yep even more so than Gortat.

 

Bass rebounds at a worse rate than Matt Barnes, and gets lost on his rotations defensively at least 4 times a game.

 

Though I'll give you credit for accusing me, of all the people on this board, of not paying attention to defense. It takes an impressive amount of ignorance to do that.

 

 

And an incredible amount of ignorance to watch an entire Magic season yet fail to realize he's second only to Dwight in both areas.

 

There's that fun word "rate", give them the same number of minutes and Bass would slaughter Barnes' rebounding "rate".

 

Rebound rate is a measure of the percentage of total available rebounds a player gets while he's on the floor, so the number of minutes two players play is completely irrelevant. If both players played enough minutes to get a reasonable measure of their impact, which they did, you can make a discernible call based on rebound rate.

 

Bass gets 7% fewer rebounds than Gortat, 1.5% fewer rebounds than Anderson, and 1% fewer rebounds than Barnes.

 

Now here comes the clue train! Last stop: you.

 

Even if we assume that Bass's rebound rate was just deflated by Dwight, Brandon Bass's career total rebound rate is 13.1, which is equal to the rebound rate Matt Barnes posted THIS YEAR. The notion that Brandon Bass is an epic rebounder, or even an above average one, is completely ridiculous, and flies completely in the face of any honest evaluation of facts both current and historical.

 

 

I'm well aware of what rebound rate means, thanks. I find the stat meaningless, not only in rebounding, in every category. There is no way to forecast what a player will do as a starter as opposed to being a bench player.

 

Until Bass gets starting minutes it's absurd to "project" what he's capable of. The mentality, the competition, the competitiveness are all skewed when you're mostly coming off the bench in garbage time as Bass did all season long. I'll go by what I SEE, not what some goofy stat geek cooked up in his basement.

 

You just contradicted yourself. Badly.

 

Statistics are a measure of what happened. You are correct, they can't predict what a complete overhaul in a player's environment will do to that player's numbers.

 

However, you said that Bass was the best defender and rebounder besides Dwight based on what you'd seen. That's simply not possible. Given that Bass never was the starter he apparently needs to be, according to you, to be this epic rebounder and defender, there's no way you could have SEEN anything. What you actually DID see is the same thing I, and Lewis4thewin, and Ramsde and everyone else saw, and what was, equally importantly, measured by completely unbiased statistical measurement. And what he DID, which is what you would have seen, is not rebound well. In fact, for a power forward, he rebounded fairly poorly. He was 77th among power forwards in rebounds per48. That's horrible, particularly for someone you're trying to claim is a great rebounder.

 

If you want to claim that Bass would instantly improve on defense and on the boards if he was made a starter, you're welcome to argue that. I think that argument is patently ludicrous, and I have an overwhelming amount of historical evidence to back me up on that, but at least it's a claim I can't state factually is ridiculous.

 

However, the notion that Brandon Bass did anything this year that demonstrated average rebounding, let alone GOOD rebounding is a CLEARLY fallacious one. There's no way you can argue he was a good rebounder this year any more than one could argue that Jemele Hill is a good writer or that Sarah Jessica Parker doesn't look like a horse. It's simply ridiculous, and clearly, clearly wrong.

 

 

I've contradicted nothing. I also never said Bass was a "great" rebounder, a word you've used twice now. I said that save for Dwight he's the best rebounder and interior defender that we have, and he is. You've stated your point twice now, I get it. You don't believe, based on some meaningless fairy tale stat such as the old "per 48" nonsense, that Bass is a capable rebounder or defender. Cool, but I believe he is and it's going to take him starting and NOT doing it to convince me I'm wrong. Using your own stats, Gortat..a guy many feel would start for well over half the teams in the NBA only gets 7 % more rebounds than Bass? A five who has him by 4-5 inches only gets 7 percent more rebounds?

 

If it ever happens, which it won't because I don't believe we'll ever run a traditional lineup out on the floor...but if Bass ever starts consistently for us I'll easily make a bet that he averages 8+ rebounds per game.

 

bass started three games this year. in 24.5 minutes per game he averages 3 rebounds

 

in 2007 he started one game and had 5 rebounds in 29 minutes

 

in 2006 he started 3 games and averaged 3.3 rebounds.

 

 

Nice sample size

 

Especially given three of those games were his rookie season.

 

 

He averaged around 4.5 rebounds in 19.5 minutes in two seasons with Dallas, which of course puts him in line for 9 in 40. Dumb stat because it's based on guessing, not actual play..but it "shows" he can get the job done if need be.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by Escobar06:

He averaged around 4.5 rebounds in 19.5 minutes in two seasons with Dallas, which of course puts him in line for 9 in 40. Dumb stat because it's based on guessing, not actual play..but it "shows" he can get the job done if need be.

 

Wait, did he actually write this, or am I having a stroke?

 

So to recap: current rebound rate and per48 statistics over large sample sizes are bad, but per40 stats from seasons with a different team have demonstrative value.

 

I think this is what an aneurysm feels like.