Seems like Mcgrady and Mike Miller want back in Orlando. Hmmmm

[UBBALLER8 248]

quote:

Originally posted by Darthmagic:

quote:

Originally posted by ThisIsTheYear:

quote:

just based on age alone i'm not on the miller train, dude's older, and more injury prone, i know peitrus has his bouts, but miller goes down alot.

 

Miller's as old as Barnes, meaning, he just turned 30. For a guy that relies on shooting, 30's not exactly one of his final twilight years as a player.

 

He's injury prone? Assuming he finishes off his final four games this season without getting inured, Miller has averaged 69 games played per season since the beginning of his NBA career. MP, by contrast, has averaged 62 games played. Who's injury prone again?

 

It's amazing that people can compare Peaches to Mike Miller. I'm at a loss as to how people think Peaches can come close to Miller's all around game. Peaches can't even dribble three times without traveling.

 

Read Lewis' post above yours.

 

PS I assume you are a UF fan as well.

[ThisIsTheYear 241]

quote:

Originally posted by UBBALLER8:

 

Whoa, whoa whoa... slow down.

 

Mike Miller is a playmaker?

 

Pau Gasol was the only reason those Memphis teams were worth a **** when he was there. He also went to two championships with the Lakers and even won one.

 

Jason Williams won a championship with the Heat and was a humongous contributor on those early playoff Kings teams.

 

How far has Mike Miller been in the playoffs again?

 

Please notify me when Mike Miller makes it to the finals and is an integral part of the team like J Will and Pau were and are currently.

 

 

Pau/Williams were "losers" before landing on perennial contenders, that's my point. Miller has never had the chance to play for a powerhouse team, so naturally, the chances of him taking a team far into the playoffs were slim to none. Miller, when he was a part of the Memphis Grizzlies, was a combined 0-11 in playoff games. You know who else was? Pau, J-Will, Batter, etc. As far as contributing, Miller was an efficient 2nd/3rd scoring option on a team that featured little to no scoring beyond him and Pau Gasol.

 

And yes, he's a **** good playmaker.

[PNuT1423 0]

i guess i'll never see how in the magic's current situation how we could use mike miller over peaches in a sense that we'll have to face lebron at some point in the playoffs.

 

defense wins championships, and it's not like we don't have 5 starters that can throw down 20 points each to begin with... and peitrus is very much capable of knocking down a high clip in the playoffs, we've seen this.

 

miller would add some offense but be a step slower on defense, it's just what it is man.

[Darthmagic 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Lewis4thewin:

quote:

Originally posted by Darthmagic:

 

You are either a UF homer, a racist, or are on hallucinogenic drugs.

 

Mike Miller does nothing at all better than Pietrus, and is certainly not a better defender or rebounder than Barnes.

 

It could be argued that now that Barnes is in the starting lineup that he isn't even a better shooter than him either.

 

miller is a better offensive player...

 

Than Pietrus?

 

How so? Because he averages more points on a team that is 200x worse?

 

Mike Miller can never and will never be as valuable to a championship caliber basketball team as Mikael Pietrus is. Pietrus could average 20 on a really ****ty team too - where he's chucking up all sorts of shots.

 

I remember Mike Miller being here and scoring points, but I also remember Mike Miller dribbling the ball of his foot into the stands in crucial situations, and turning the ball over carelessly also. I want no part of him or IR-Mac.

 

 

He's a far superior playmaker and 3 point shooter then both of them and it is so obvious it isn't even funny. Pietrus may be more athletic but he discounts that by making so many moronic plays that I will take Miller's bball IQ over Pietrus' athleticism any day. There both always nursing some kind of injury so that's a push. On ball d Pietrus may be better but again he makes so many mental mistakes that Miller simply does not.

 

You point out Miller dribbling the ball off his foot. Valid. Back in 2002 anyway. Kid was in his first years so of course he was making some bad mistakes. By your reckoning we should have given up on Dwight years ago.

 

Now I will agree with you on Barnes in a heartbeat. But if it is between peaches and Miller then I'm sorry, there are very few teams that would take the french-men over the vet.

 

i disagree. pietrus has established that he can be a two-way player. the fact that he plays great defense makes him more valuable.

 

You just tend to overrate your college teams players. A lot.

 

I agree with the 2 way player assessment.

 

Pietrus >>> Miller

 

In what universe?

 

in the universe where basketball is played on two ends of the court.

 

 

we can't use the Defense is just as important as offense when making dwight's case for MVP then dismiss it when people want to overrate miller.

 

The fact is, its easy to find guys who can score. We have several guys on our team who can fill the roll of 4th or 5th option on offense. We dont have as many who can be a top level defender.

 

Thus my reasoning behind why pietrus would be more valuable on this team than mike miller.

 

I'm not ignoring the defensive side of the ball, but IMO Mike Miller gives you more on the offensive end than Peaches gives you on the defensive end. Include the bball IQ it's no contest. Outside of athleticism JJ is a better player than Peaches. I'd take Mike Miller over JJ right now. If JJ became mike miller he would have had a successful career outside of championships. Mike has won rookie of the year and 6th man of the year. The guy's a baller and seriously underrated on this team. Ads for fit on this team, i wouldn't give up Peaches for him.

 

See, the same people who would have JJ over pietrus like miller over pietrus. These people dont have championship ambitions. JJ is a great player, JJ can win games by himself occasionally while pietrus cant. JJ also cant play in certain playoff series because of his defense.

 

While pietrus may never be the offensive threat that JJ or mike miller is, he is more important on a championship team.

 

The average JJ offensive game and the average Pietrus offensive game is pretty negligible. Pietrus' defense is way more important though.

 

If im building a team and i need a 4th or 5th option im picking pietrus every time because his investment is always worth double because he excels at both offense and defense. JJ and Miller have higher offensive ceilings but need shots for that to happen. Unless they are 2nd or third scoring options out there your return of investment doesn't beat Pietrus.

 

Again, in what universe does Peitrus EXCEL offensively? When the hell did that happen?

[Darthmagic 0]

quote:

Originally posted by UBBALLER8:

quote:

Originally posted by Darthmagic:

quote:

Originally posted by ThisIsTheYear:

quote:

just based on age alone i'm not on the miller train, dude's older, and more injury prone, i know peitrus has his bouts, but miller goes down alot.

 

Miller's as old as Barnes, meaning, he just turned 30. For a guy that relies on shooting, 30's not exactly one of his final twilight years as a player.

 

He's injury prone? Assuming he finishes off his final four games this season without getting inured, Miller has averaged 69 games played per season since the beginning of his NBA career. MP, by contrast, has averaged 62 games played. Who's injury prone again?

 

It's amazing that people can compare Peaches to Mike Miller. I'm at a loss as to how people think Peaches can come close to Miller's all around game. Peaches can't even dribble three times without traveling.

 

Read Lewis' post above yours.

 

PS I assume you are a UF fan as well.

 

No i'm not. But i've watched both players play for my team and trust me, Mike Miller is the better player.

[ThisIsTheYear 241]

For the record, I'm not saying I would take Miller over Pietrus. I admire what Pietrus brings to the table in terms of energy/defense, and how crucial he is to our success in this upcoming post season. What I'm arguing against, is the fact that some believe Pietrus is a better OFFENSIVE player. That is laughably absurd, and typically does not warrant any debate, but of course, these are the Magic boards, where homers run amok.

 

And I despise the Gators.

[BMP 424]

quote:

Originally posted by Darthmagic:

quote:

Originally posted by UBBALLER8:

quote:

Originally posted by Darthmagic:

quote:

Originally posted by ThisIsTheYear:

quote:

just based on age alone i'm not on the miller train, dude's older, and more injury prone, i know peitrus has his bouts, but miller goes down alot.

 

Miller's as old as Barnes, meaning, he just turned 30. For a guy that relies on shooting, 30's not exactly one of his final twilight years as a player.

 

He's injury prone? Assuming he finishes off his final four games this season without getting inured, Miller has averaged 69 games played per season since the beginning of his NBA career. MP, by contrast, has averaged 62 games played. Who's injury prone again?

 

It's amazing that people can compare Peaches to Mike Miller. I'm at a loss as to how people think Peaches can come close to Miller's all around game. Peaches can't even dribble three times without traveling.

 

Read Lewis' post above yours.

 

PS I assume you are a UF fan as well.

 

No i'm not. But i've watched both players play for my team and trust me, Mike Miller is the better player.

 

Let's just all be glad you're not Otis... I hope.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

let me try and break this down easier for people to understand.

 

Lets say we have a scale from 1-10 (10 being highest) of potential impact on a game.

 

Mike Miller's offensive impact might be a 7 (he's a good scorer but not really a 17+ppg guy)

 

His defense is probably a 4.

 

Pietrus' offensive impact is about a 5 (can hit a shot and have games where he randomly goes off)

 

Pietrus' defensive impact is an 8 (not a first team defensive guy (10) not an intimidating defensive force (9) but a pretty good stopper)

 

7+4=11 8+5=13

 

pietrus is more valuable.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

quote:

Originally posted by ThisIsTheYear:

For the record, I'm not saying I would take Miller over Pietrus. I admire what Pietrus brings to the table in terms of energy/defense, and how crucial he is to our success in this upcoming post season. What I'm arguing against, is the fact that some believe Pietrus is a better OFFENSIVE player. That is laughably absurd, and typically does not warrant any debate, but of course, these are the Magic boards, where homers run amok.

 

And I despise the Gators.

 

this is not arguable. in no way is pietrus a better offensive player.

[Darthmagic 0]

quote:

Originally posted by ThisIsTheYear:

For the record, I'm not saying I would take Miller over Pietrus. I admire what Pietrus brings to the table in terms of energy/defense, and how crucial he is to our success in this upcoming post season. What I'm arguing against, is the fact that some believe Pietrus is a better OFFENSIVE player. That is laughably absurd, and typically does not warrant any debate, but of course, these are the Magic boards, where homers run amok.

 

And I despise the Gators.

 

I think the issues are being confused. unless we get another defender i would not give up Peaches for Mike Miller. I would replace JJ with Mike because i think Mike is the superior player. Yes, i understand that JJ is younger but i like what Miller brings. He and Peaches would make a hell of a combo off the bench.

[UBBALLER8 248]

quote:

Originally posted by ThisIsTheYear:

quote:

Originally posted by UBBALLER8:

 

Whoa, whoa whoa... slow down.

 

Mike Miller is a playmaker?

 

Pau Gasol was the only reason those Memphis teams were worth a **** when he was there. He also went to two championships with the Lakers and even won one.

 

Jason Williams won a championship with the Heat and was a humongous contributor on those early playoff Kings teams.

 

How far has Mike Miller been in the playoffs again?

 

Please notify me when Mike Miller makes it to the finals and is an integral part of the team like J Will and Pau were and are currently.

 

Pau/Williams were "losers" before landing on perennial contenders, that's my point. Miller has never had the chance to play for a powerhouse team, so naturally, the chances of him taking a team far into the playoffs were slim to none. Miller, when he was a part of the Memphis Grizzlies, was a combined 0-11 in playoff games. You know who else was? Pau, J-Will, Batter, etc. As far as contributing, Miller was an efficient 2nd/3rd scoring option on a team that featured little to no scoring beyond him and Pau Gasol.

 

And yes, he's a **** good playmaker.

 

 

What team has Miller even made a team good? Forget making a team a team great. How many teams has Miller been on that have turned out better than 6th-7th seed? What has he contributed?

 

Pau took the Lakers (a team which couldn't get over the hump without Shaq) and made them a championship team. He instantaneously made the Grizzlies a better team (until the year he was inevitably traded) in which they struggled, mightily.

 

Jason Williams was a loser in Sacramento? Really? That's news to me. I seem to remember him being the starting PG on a team that played the Lakers in the Western Conference Championship and contended in the tough western conference pretty much every year he was out there.

 

Mike Miller though has never done anything, actually, except for exist on a team who had a superstar carry his sorry *** to the playoffs. If it wasn't for T-Mac or Pau, Mike Miller would never have even sniffed the playoffs as a starting player. With your inane logic, Andray Blatche is a great playmaker also - because he puts up all sorts of stats on the Wizards. If Blatche gets a great player on his team and rides his coattail like Miller did (and has done for his entire career) I assume you're going to nominate him for the HOF?

 

C'mon man, give me a break.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by UBBALLER8:

Jason Williams was a loser in Sacramento? Really? That's news to me. I seem to remember him being the starting PG on a team that played the Lakers in the Western Conference Championship and contended in the tough western conference pretty much every year he was out there.

 

That was Mike Bibby. If you're going to insult people, it's a good idea not to get well known things blatantly wrong.