Would you make this trade for Hinrich?

[BMP 424]

If I read pass-first PG one more time I'm going to kill a kitten.

 

 

Jameer averages perhaps 9-10 shots a game with around 5 assists and he's a "shoot-first" PG, yet Hinrich averages 12 shots a game with 6 assists and he's a "pass-first" PG.

 

 

[Captain Hindsight 50]

quote:

Originally posted by Faux Hawk:

quote:

Originally posted by M4G1C:

quote:

Originally posted by Faux Hawk:

Bulls send Hinrich for Jameer and Foyle?

 

It works and provides 2.3 million in relief for the Bulls next summer.

 

there's a trade thread at the top where several other awful trades like this go. no need to make a new thread

Wow I completely did not see that you were made a moderator.

 

because telling someone that there's already a thread stickied where topics like this already go is me being a moderator?

 

you apparently don't see a lot of things otherwise you would have seen that this trade is terrible and the whole hinrich for jameer thing has been discussed a bunch here

[Jareth Cutestory 678]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

No. Hinrich has been brutal for two years now.

 

B R OOTAL

[Sinister Grin 3]

I disagree with DOM saying Hinrich has been brutal for the last 2 years. People tend to put way too much weight in the offensive production of a player. His defense is his calling card and that is something he does supremely all the time. His overall shooting has never been great but his 3pt% has. He has great size for a PG and is a very intelligent player. Low turnovers and unselfish.

 

I would rather keep Jameer though and bring him off the bench for that offensive punch. Maybe Pietrus, Bass and the T.E. for Salmons and Hinrich.

 

The PG position is the only position we have 0 defensive presence. Trading for Hinrich while keeping Nelson would really give us a great offensive/defensive duo even though I will admit that is a lot of cash at the PG position.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

With the exception of one playoff series last year, Hinrich hasn't been an elite defender since 2006. His drtg is 2 points higher than his team's, which is sad for someone who makes his living off his defensive reputation.

 

And his offense has been ghastly for 2 seasons now. Worse shooting percentages than Vince.

 

Also: Nelson averages more points and more assists per36 than Hinrich does, and shoots a much better percentage. He even rebounds comparably to Hinrich, and Hinrich doesn't play next to Dwight.

 

There really is no argument to make here.

[BMP 424]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

With the exception of one playoff series last year, Hinrich hasn't been an elite defender since 2006. His drtg is 2 points higher than his team's, which is sad for someone who makes his living off his defensive reputation.

 

And his offense has been ghastly for 2 seasons now. Worse shooting percentages than Vince.

 

Also: Nelson averages more points and more assists per36 than Hinrich does, and shoots a much better percentage. He even rebounds comparably to Hinrich, and Hinrich doesn't play next to Dwight.

 

There really is no argument to make here.

 

but... but... he's a pass-first PG which is just what this team needs!1!!!

[Faux Hawk 0]

quote:

Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

If I read pass-first PG one more time I'm going to kill a kitten.

 

 

Jameer averages perhaps 9-10 shots a game with around 5 assists and he's a "shoot-first" PG, yet Hinrich averages 12 shots a game with 6 assists and he's a "pass-first" PG.

 

 

It is not that Jameer does not pass the ball, it is the way he facilitates the ball movement. A pass first point guard can start the offense off a lot quicker than Jameer. Most of Jameer's assists come from his dribble pentration which starts from running around a screen or in an isolation play for him. Whereas JWill can see the court better and can make a pass without having to do so much just to get in to a position to pass it to the open man. It is a big big difference.

 

Also when Jameer is not knocking down the shots, he is also a bad passer. So if one part of his game is off, his entire game suffers because he is not a natural passer. he is a natural scorer. For his passing to be effective, the defense has to collapse on him and thus a man becomes open. Traditionally, teams let him shoot before they cover him. Where as, JWill is better at running a fast break and running a pass first half court game. JWill does not force many shots and hardly turns it over. Jameer will force a lot of shots good and bad because his passing is directly effected to how much of a threat his scoring is.

[Faux Hawk 0]

Maybe I should rename this thread, THIS TEAM SUCKS WHEN JAMEER IS ON THE COURT, FIND A REPLACEMENT!!! lol

[BMP 424]

quote:

Originally posted by Faux Hawk:

quote:

Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

If I read pass-first PG one more time I'm going to kill a kitten.

 

 

Jameer averages perhaps 9-10 shots a game with around 5 assists and he's a "shoot-first" PG, yet Hinrich averages 12 shots a game with 6 assists and he's a "pass-first" PG.

 

 

It is not that Jameer does not pass the ball, it is the way he facilitates the ball movement. A pass first point guard can start the offense off a lot quicker than Jameer. Most of Jameer's assists come from his dribble pentration which starts from running around a screen or in an isolation play for him. Whereas JWill can see the court better and can make a pass without having to do so much just to get in to a position to pass it to the open man. It is a big big difference.

 

Also when Jameer is not knocking down the shots, he is also a bad passer. So if one part of his game is off, his entire game suffers because he is not a natural passer. he is a natural scorer. For his passing to be effective, the defense has to collapse on him and thus a man becomes open. Traditionally, teams let him shoot before they cover him. Where as, JWill is better at running a fast break and running a pass first half court game. JWill does not force many shots and hardly turns it over. Jameer will force a lot of shots good and bad because his passing is directly effected to how much of a threat his scoring is.

 

JWill's TOV% is the same as Jameer's TOV%. Jameer's assist% is slightly higher than Jameer's.

[Sinister Grin 3]

I watch as many Bulls games that I can and I can safely tell you this, Hinrich causes problems always. You might have statistics and numbers but from what I see on the court he is still a superb defender. You have to realize that his drtg will naturally be higher as he is always guarding the opposing teams best backcourt player. There is a difference in guarding Derek Fisher and Kobe Bryant. Whoever is the greatest offensive threat that is who Hinrich will be guarding.

 

When since is 44% fg, 41% 3pt% ghastly? Those were last years numbers.

 

I think there is a valid argument there. You have to take into consideration that for almost 2 years he has been guarding the 2 guard position.

 

The argument isn't who is the better offensive player so I will readily concede that Jameer is the better offensive player with the superior offensive numbers. I just feel having a defensive PG in the lineup that actually guards the PG's will be a great asset.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

Drtg has nothing to do with who you're guarding. It's a calculation of the number of points your opponent will score in 100 possessions while you're on the court.

 

The Bulls are statistically better defensively when Hinrich isn't playing.

 

As for last year's shooting percentage, you're right, I had forgotten that he shot very well in the second half of the season. Of course, he shot 42%/35% pre-allstar break last year, and he was abysmal the season before that. And he's been categorically awful so far this year.

 

So in essence, you're arguing he's a good offensive player based off of a 2.5 month period while ignoring the surrounding 2 years.

 

And that's....NOT...stupid?

[Sinister Grin 3]

Wow DOM. You have a PG guarding SG's you don't think the drtg is going to be a bit higher? He is a great defender but just like Hubie Brown said the other night he gives up too much size to be very effective for long stretches.

 

It's stupid because you don't agree with it. Come on everyone is entitled to their opinion. I disagree with a lot of things you say but I never think of it as stupid. I think of it as your opinion. I also agree with a lot of the things you say too.

 

I never said he was a great offensive player either. I was just disputing that he was as horrible as you made him out to be on the offensive end.