Vince Carter- Style of Play

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

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Originally posted by VaBchMagicFan:

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Originally posted by ThuglifeJ:

 

I guess 50 points and 9 3s in a row is no big in a playoff game.

 

 

 

btw VaBach, it's not a big deal that Hedo embarassed himself yesterday and everyone understand how much of an upgrade VC is, knowing how big of a Hedo fanboy you are. It's not a big deal Hedo will have a good game eventually.

 

And I think it's pretty dumb to say "Kobe wont continue to shoot so poorly, (18% from 3)." but then continue to come on here and say VC WILL continue to shoot bad %s (even tho he's averaging above 40% from 3 and fg.

Dude VC played like ****, and I'm not a Hedo fan. I just think this team was better when he was on it(it was). Hedo played pretty well the first time he played us and VC is not shooting over 40% from 3. He is shooting like 38% which is what he shot last year also. His FG% is at 41% which is average and what Hedo shot last year when he was bashed constantly. No one still has come up with a legitimate argument to the facts I brought up, big surprise.

 

prior to last game he was shooting 41.8%

 

We excused hedo for the beginning of last season even though his play was much worse then carter this year. Last november hedo shot 37.8% on 15 attempts per game. thats coupled with a 30.6 3 point % 3.9 assists and 2.5 turnovers.

 

carter's only played in 10 games this season so his numbers aren't statistically significant yet. he's shot 165 shots and made 68 so far. if wednesday he shoots something like 15 for 22 his shooting percentage will jump to 44.4%

 

your dont have a valid argument yet because your numbers aren't statistically significant yet. one great game (or one horrible game if he shoots something like 3-15) has such a huge impact on his shooting percentage that your argument might seem logical to you now, but will have no weight if one singular event goes a specific, but not improbable, way.

 

 

history shows that vince sometimes has slumps. But for every january 2009 (39.5% shooting) theres a november 2008 (48.1%). For every 2008 january (42.7%) theres a 2007 november (49.6) or 2008 april (54.3).

 

every year he has shooting slumps, and every year he shoots between 43% and 46%.

 

 

You say we were a better team with hedo? last year at this point we were 10-4 with losses to atlanta, memphis, portland, and houston. We hadn't played cleveland, boston, los angeles, denver or san antonio. the 10-4 record alone shows we are at the very least as good of a team as we were up to this point last year. Wins against phoenix and boston this early with one loss to cleveland leads me to believe that our 11-3 record holds more weight. Even if im wrong, your argument still doesn't stand up.

 

There. I addressed your points. You're wrong. Your arguments don't hold up statistically or through actual gameplay.

 

Now you'll just ignore this post like you ignore every post where i kick your *** intellectually.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

quote:

Originally posted by VaBchMagicFan:

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Originally posted by Lewis4thewin:

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Originally posted by VaBchMagicFan:

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Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

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Originally posted by murphy13:

What some people including the OP dont realize is that this is a different team than vince has ever been on. He should not be expected to contribute in the same ways he did in the past. In order for him to be truly successful, he will have to understand how to adjust to his role. And his role is NOT putting up a ton of shots every game. Sure, there will be random days where we need him to step up...but it shouldnt be a regular occurence. We do not want this team to become centered around Vince, period.

 

Our team is at its best when the ball is being passed around, namely in the inside-out fashion. Like it or not, Vince has been a ball stopper for us. 9-24 nights are not our style...think about how many of those 15 bricks he put up would have been makes if he had just made the extra pass...Its the difference between a close win and a comfortable win(Boston game is perfect example).

 

BUT THAT IS HIS EXACT ROLE. Have you not been listening to what he has said and what SVG has said he wants him to be? He got yelled at for passing the ball. SVG has made it clear that Carter's role is to be putting up tons of shots every game.

No that is not his role, to take tons of bad jumpshots is not his role. His role is to create for himself and other, get to the basket, and defend larger 2 guards. He has done none of those things well.

 

highlight tapes of every game says otherwise.

 

he may take some bad jumpers but so does everyone on our team (dwight takes bad hooks) and every player in the nba. He's gotten to the basket some. He creates for himself well (see 4th quarter vs boston).

 

There have been numerous quotes by SVG telling vince to shoot more, to take over late in games, and to just be himself.

 

so you're wrong in all counts.

Highlight tapes of what?Oh you mean him sitting at home in May or in the stands watching games. Half the shots he takes are bad shots and he rarely goes to the rim. Dwight is struggling, Nelson looked bad and Shard is not getting enough shots. SVG is part of the problem, he has Bass on the bench, his Superstar mad and getting 8 shots a game. VC takes more bad shots than Hedo could dream of, Hedo got other people involved and would never think of shooting 29 shots. I love how people would bash Hedo for jacking up shots, but meanwhile support VC taking more shots and going to the basket less. Its unbelievable to say the least.He realized the most important thing was getting Dwight involved. Do you think that Dwight not playing as well or working as hard defensively has nothing to do with him not being happy on the offensive end? The guy is constantly upset on the floor when he doesn't even get a look from VC to pass the ball.

 

Hedo shot jumpshots 73% of the time last year, compared to 80% from VC. Now don't say that VC is getting accustomed to the team because VC still shot a higher % of jumpshots last year. Hedo made everyone better, including the most important person, you know this guy named Dwight Howard on this team. Hedo also averaged more assists a game and shot the same FG% in a bad year for him. This year he has a higher FG% than VC. Its a double standard and if you hated Turk you should hate VC for the same reasons and its even worse.

 

dwight's decline is more due to foul trouble resulting in less minutes. dwights stats per 36 minutes last season was 20.7 ppg and 13.9 rebs per game. This season its 20 ppg and 12.8 rebs per game.

 

our team is averaging 20 assists per game. last season it was 19.4.

 

so vince on our team doesn't hurt us there either. instead of hedo playing a lot of point we have j will. We aren't asking vince to be hedo. we're asking vince to be vince.

 

vince being vince is better than hedo being hedo.

 

Shard's stats are inconsequential right now due to playing in only 4 games but your statement that he's not getting enough shots is a bold faced lie. Shard is actually shooting 13.5 shots per game in 33 mpg compared to last year when he shot 13.8 shots per game in 36 minutes per game. The truth is shard is actually shooting more shots per minute with vince on the team! None of these stats matter though because hes only played in 4 games.

 

EDIT: i forgot to mention that nelson is having a season very similar to last season. last season nelson averaged 9.5 points and 3 assists in october and 15.3 points and 5.4 assists in november. this season nelson had an 8 point and 5.5 assist october and a 15 point 5.6 point november. so you're wrong there too.

[PEC 0]

quote:

Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

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Originally posted by the anchovie:

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Originally posted by VCdaCarter:

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Originally posted by the anchovie:

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Originally posted by VCdaCarter:

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Originally posted by the anchovie:

I believe Vince is an excellent pickup and I would take him any day of Hedo.

 

But throwing up shooting percentages doesn't make a guy a good team player. Yes its looks good but Carter has to learn when to pass and when to shoot. I would like to see him not force as many shots. When you have as many weapons as the Magic, you can pass to anyone and have a high percentage shot. I'd like to see Carter average 4 or more assist a game. Guys play harder when there involved and are part of the game. I believe a great players will get their team involved and will take over a game when needed. Trust your team mates.

You fools keep talking about how many weapons orlando has but for the past 2 games these so-called weapons have been shooting blanks. They're not taking as many shots as vince but they're not making most of the shots they take.

 

First of all I'm not a Fool!

 

Second - I'd like to see Vice take less than 20 shots a game. Preferably around 13. If he needs to take over then higher. I don't think we are going to be a strong team if Vince is consistently taking 24 shots a game.

 

And Third - Vince was shooting blanks in the first quarter but he kept shooting.

smh@ 13 shots a game. he makes 15+ million a year, he's not jj redick. They didn't sign him to just fill in a spot in the floor.

 

I agree they signed him to contribute big time. Buts its not all shooting. Look at Hedo's assist last year. About 5 per game. There is no reason that Carter can't do the same. Its about winning. Carter doesn't need to take over 20 shots per game for us to win. Maybe some nights but not consistently.

Back to Hedo...

 

 

Carter has averaged so far in this season 15.7 shots attempted, 6.6 made (42%). He's not taking THAT many shots. Yes, he could pass a bit more, but that's not what SVG wants him to do. And please, he's only averaging 2 less assists per game than Hedo did in his first 12 games last season. Not only that but he's also averaging more points.

 

Stat sheet don't lie. Even if I hate bringing it up. One thing you fail to recognize is that Hedo could not create his own shot the way VC is, which is why he passed more (so far, at least... they both averaged nearly the same amount of assists per game).

 

It's funny because people only remember those games when Hedo was passing the ball and getting close to 10 assists, but they fail to remember they were also negated by the following night where he'd get maybe 1 assist.

 

 

 

Oh, and Hedo also averaged almost 10 more minutes of playing time than VC has (in the first few games of the season).

 

Those stats you are mentioning are misleading since Carter missed 4 games.

 

If you average the shots he has been taking your numbers drop a lot.

 

Hedo is actually just around 5 more minutes a game if you want to be correct.

[PEC 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Rob:

I'm just glad we finally have a guy that can take over a game by himself. I wouldn't mind if Carter took 20 shots per game. As long as he mix up his shots and don't rely on just jumpers all game. Attack the basket as much as he can. He will make the game easier for the shooters. All the attention is on him now. Now we just need all the shooters to knock down their shots.

 

I agree when he attacks the basket he also is able to get to the ft line as well.

 

Carter with just a little more involvement by his teammates will again be an all star. Just stop the chucking please.

 

Carter you really don't have to anymore your not on the Nets there are other options.

 

Something I know he didn't have before.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

quote:

Originally posted by PEC:

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Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

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Originally posted by the anchovie:

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Originally posted by VCdaCarter:

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Originally posted by the anchovie:

quote:

Originally posted by VCdaCarter:

quote:

Originally posted by the anchovie:

I believe Vince is an excellent pickup and I would take him any day of Hedo.

 

But throwing up shooting percentages doesn't make a guy a good team player. Yes its looks good but Carter has to learn when to pass and when to shoot. I would like to see him not force as many shots. When you have as many weapons as the Magic, you can pass to anyone and have a high percentage shot. I'd like to see Carter average 4 or more assist a game. Guys play harder when there involved and are part of the game. I believe a great players will get their team involved and will take over a game when needed. Trust your team mates.

You fools keep talking about how many weapons orlando has but for the past 2 games these so-called weapons have been shooting blanks. They're not taking as many shots as vince but they're not making most of the shots they take.

 

First of all I'm not a Fool!

 

Second - I'd like to see Vice take less than 20 shots a game. Preferably around 13. If he needs to take over then higher. I don't think we are going to be a strong team if Vince is consistently taking 24 shots a game.

 

And Third - Vince was shooting blanks in the first quarter but he kept shooting.

smh@ 13 shots a game. he makes 15+ million a year, he's not jj redick. They didn't sign him to just fill in a spot in the floor.

 

I agree they signed him to contribute big time. Buts its not all shooting. Look at Hedo's assist last year. About 5 per game. There is no reason that Carter can't do the same. Its about winning. Carter doesn't need to take over 20 shots per game for us to win. Maybe some nights but not consistently.

Back to Hedo...

 

 

Carter has averaged so far in this season 15.7 shots attempted, 6.6 made (42%). He's not taking THAT many shots. Yes, he could pass a bit more, but that's not what SVG wants him to do. And please, he's only averaging 2 less assists per game than Hedo did in his first 12 games last season. Not only that but he's also averaging more points.

 

Stat sheet don't lie. Even if I hate bringing it up. One thing you fail to recognize is that Hedo could not create his own shot the way VC is, which is why he passed more (so far, at least... they both averaged nearly the same amount of assists per game).

 

It's funny because people only remember those games when Hedo was passing the ball and getting close to 10 assists, but they fail to remember they were also negated by the following night where he'd get maybe 1 assist.

 

 

 

Oh, and Hedo also averaged almost 10 more minutes of playing time than VC has (in the first few games of the season).

 

Those stats you are mentioning are misleading since Carter missed 4 games.

 

If you average the shots he has been taking your numbers drop a lot.

 

Hedo is actually just around 5 more minutes a game if you want to be correct.

 

every stat is misleading when you've only played 17% of the games and a player has missed 29% of that 17%

[bravlady 0]

Personally, and it's my opinion which I'm entitled to, I'm not impressed with Vince. He's done nothing out of the ordinary. He hasn't won a clutch game for the team. He is not very exciting. He's just a player. I'm not convinced he's living up to the hype.

 

I've seen a glimpse of the selfishness he's played with over the years and I'm waiting for the rest of it to rear its ugly head. I saw Stan running the same plays for him at the end of the Toronto game that he ran for Hedo and Vince couldn't deliver. I'm still waiting for something to happen.

[PEC 0]

I think what has caught everyone's attention is that in the last two games VC has been a little out of control when it comes to sharing the ball with his teammates.

 

Carter has shot the ball 53 times in those games and he is all of 19-53.

 

But to make things worse he is 2-12 from beyond the arc in those two games.

 

I noticed that several of the "experts" mentioned his too many shots in the last two games compared to most of his other games with the Magic.

[PEC 0]

quote:

Originally posted by ButterMilkPancakes:

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Originally posted by VaBchMagicFan:

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Originally posted by one9:

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Originally posted by T REX:

When did we get three HOF's on our roster????

 

So you think Boston, as a team 2 years ago, is better than this current Magic team?

 

Honest question.

Yeah, that team was consistent almost every night and was a monster defensively. They had a drive to win a ring that I thought this Magic team would after the loss in the Finals, just like LA came back last year. Instead this team takes games off and have been mediocre defensively. Not to mention the best player on our team looks lost, comparable to his first couple years in the league. This isn't VC's team even though SVG and VC seem like they want it to be. Which in my opinion is a huge mistake, not to mention Bass sitting on the bench. I don't get that at all, he brings what this team was missing, instead he plays another big who wants to jack 3's and not rebound and play defense that hurts to watch.

 

lol @ you expecting this team to play their best every single game of the regular season, and bigger lol @ you expect that to come out on the first few games when we've had so many problems.

 

 

Get real. Come back and whine when the Magic aren't playing well in the playoffs.

 

I gather you joined this forum when Carter got traded to the Magic. Enough said.

 

For some reason I feel a Carlos moment.

[NickAnderson 14]

The thing about Carter taking all those shots is, Stan wants him to. Carter said in the Toronto post game interview Stan got mad hit him for passing it.

 

My only beef with Carter is his shot selectoin sometimes..

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by PEC:

Carter has shot the ball 53 times in those games and he is all of 19-53.

 

19/53 is 36%.

 

JJ shot 39% for all of last season, and 37% in the playoffs.

 

I get that the JJ fans on this board would like to burn down the rest of the team to make JJ look better, but common sense just makes you seem that much more petty, and JJ that much worse by comparison.

[jack l j 0]

forget hedo he is gone. the question is will vc play everyday like a championship is his goal. play defense every night and be smart on the other end. can he,yes. will he, i do not know. time will prove if he is tough enough.

[PEC 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by PEC:

Carter has shot the ball 53 times in those games and he is all of 19-53.

 

19/53 is 36%.

 

JJ shot 39% for all of last season, and 37% in the playoffs.

 

I get that the JJ fans on this board would like to burn down the rest of the team to make JJ look better, but common sense just makes you seem that much more petty, and JJ that much worse by comparison.

 

Redick admitted that last season was his worst shooting, but the last time I checked we were (or most of us)

talking about this season.

 

Redick worked on his shot this past off season and he has gotten better.

42.7% overall and 44.1% from beyond the arc.

JJ would be the first person to tell you that he would like to get that number up higher.

 

Since Dom wants us to compare as of now VC is shooting 41.2 not that bad and then we have

38.3 from beyond the arc.

 

BTW I didn't bring up Redick you did I was talking about VC who is a great addition to this team.

I just wish he had a better shot selection considering how many times in the last two games he shot the ball.