START GORTAT AT PF...If the Rockets are willing to Pay Gortat...

[MagicFanBen 0]

quote:

Originally posted by New Guy:

You're not going to find someone who is better than Gortat but, that is what you'll have to settle for.

 

Gortat is not a PF. He cannot hit a jumpshot at all, Dwight cannot hit a jump shot...at all. It doesnt work. Gortat would have to play out of the pain frequently on defense. That would be terrible. I'm sorry but, he's not a PF. He's a true center.

 

And again, we wont match the full MLE for Gortat, it would make no sense to do so. The Hornets and Kings may even throw some real cash his way. The same could be said for Brandon Bass who New Orleans loves. They want to bring him back home and may open the wallet to do so.

 

First of all since you cannot find someone better than Gortat you do not let him go since you can match. Second of all Gortat's jump shot is much better than Dwights. We really have no idea how good offensively Gortat is or can be because SVG did not have a single play in the offense for Gortat. Whereas we pretty much know how much work Dwight needs because he has a lot of plays drawn up for him.

[Mr Charisma 0]

quote:

Originally posted by MagicFanBen:

quote:

Originally posted by DuvalMagicFan:

makes sense. i personally think we should keep Gortat AND Turk, but that's just me.

 

Well no one would dispute that, but the fact is Carter will command the ball on offense. If you start Gortat, you know we are going to be the toughest team on defense in the league. just look at this years team compared to the one that went to the finals. Compare their defense.

 

PG Nelson = Nelson

SG Carter > Lee

SF Lewis > Hedo

PF Gortat > Lewis

C Howard = Howard

 

That is just a comparison on Defense. WE got bigger and better with Vince on defense at the SG position. Lewis is a better defender than Hedo by a mile when he guards the small forwards. Gortat is a better defender than Lewis by a mile when guarding the PF/C position.

 

Defense wins championships. If Gortat was a more polished offensive player last year, we could have played the Lakers a lot tougher on the boards and in the post. It just makes sense

 

The biggest problem with the Lakers we had was getting out rebounded. Now look at the difference in the player stats when it comes to rebounding.

 

PG Nelson = Nelson

SG Carter > Lee

SF Lewis > Hedo

PF Gortat > Lewis

C Howard = Howard

I have no problem using this lineup. I do not think it is the lineup to use in most matchup situations. Maybe 8-10 minutes a game on average.

 

I also have to disagree with your assessment that Shard is a better defender and rebounder than Hedo. Defensively, they are equals. As rebounders, Hedo is better. And saying that Carter is defensively better than Lee is a stretch also. Just my opinion on those, but it certainly changes the look of your equations.

 

I really do hope we can re-sign Gortat.

[New Guy 11]

Gortat's jump shot is far from consistent and his form is terrible. He shoots it like he shoots his terrible free throws. Leaning back a great deal. The guy is not a PF. You cant have two centers in there with no game outside 4-5 feet, that would not work in today's game. And both would fight over the paint on defense.

 

I dont even know why we're dicussing it, though. Because, he wont be back. The chances are minimal at best. Centers are in high demand, so someone will pay a great deal to get him. Otis keeps repeating the point that we wont match if it gets upwards of $5 million...some say only $4 million. Well some team will offer the full MLE so, there goes that. Gortat has a great opportunity and I dont see why he wouldnt take it. He's ready to branch off and become a starting center elsewhere. He already thinks he's a star and he wants to showcase his talent elsewhere. There is more minutes and money out there for him. And if you want to talk position...his natural position is out there as well, starting jobs, no less. He's history.

[MagicFanBen 0]

I would like to point out to all you idiots out there that think I am well off here with my start him at PF position. EVERYONE on this board flamed me when I said Ariza should be the starting SG. Everyone said he may have the defense ability but he will never hit a 3 and his jump shot will take a long time to come around.

 

WHAT A DIFFERENCE A YEAR MAKES EH????

 

So if you want to bash my idea, be prepared for me to bring this back up and shove your words right back at you if Gortat leaves and we start seeing him hit jumper after Jumper.

 

I will point out that Detroit felt the same way about Okur. That he would never be much of an offensive threat. Just a grossly overpaid back up quality center.

 

I should also point out that we made this same mistake once back when John Gabriel pegged Ben Wallace as a grossly overpaid back up. Ben just went on to win back to back to back defensive player of the year honors.

 

When you have a player with obvious talent in the NBA. You keep him. There is a reason Gortat averaged more Rebounds and Blocks per 48 minutes than Dwight. He has talent. And if he gave you nothin else but defense Magic fans should be happy for that.

 

There is only one basketball. Vince can get his own shot. Lewis at SF can shoot over anyone who guards him. Nelson can take every point guard off the dribble and Dwight cannot be stopped unless double teamed. So saying Gortat is not our best option at PF is preposterous. He is the best available big man out there. Dwight is better equipped to play defense on Power Forwards than Gortat. But give the chance to start together and learn how to play off each other, I do not see the same problems continuing as they are now when they are on the court. They are both smart basketball players and have shown the ability to learn quickly and apply what they learned.

[MagicFanBen 0]

quote:

Originally posted by New Guy:

Gortat's jump shot is far from consistent and his form is terrible. He shoots it like he shoots his terrible free throws. Leaning back a great deal. The guy is not a PF. You cant have two centers in there with no game outside 4-5 feet, that would not work in today's game. And both would fight over the paint on defense.

 

I dont even know why we're dicussing it, though. Because, he wont be back. The chances are minimal at best. Centers are in high demand, so someone will pay a great deal to get him. Otis keeps repeating the point that we wont match if it gets upwards of $5 million...some say only $4 million. Well some team will offer the full MLE so, there goes that. Gortat has a great opportunity and I dont see why he wouldnt take it. He's ready to branch off and become a starting center elsewhere. He already thinks he's a star and he wants to showcase his talent elsewhere. There is more minutes and money out there for him. And if you want to talk position...his natural position is out there as well, starting jobs, no less. He's history.

 

The MLE will be BELOW $5.3 million if the salary cap drops. It was $5.3 million last year. So being north of $5 million would be by like a hundred thousand at best. I guess we will see if his statement meant anything over $5 million or what.

 

But I will just disagree with you on the rest of what you wrote. We do not need Gortat to be an offensive player. We have 4 potential 20 point scorers. Gortat only needs to play defense, get rebounds, block shots, be the good passer he is and hit the shot when he is given the ball.

[Mr Charisma 0]

quote:

Originally posted by MagicFanBen:

I would like to point out to all you idiots out there that think I am well off here with my start him at PF position. EVERYONE on this board flamed me when I said Ariza should be the starting SG. Everyone said he may have the defense ability but he will never hit a 3 and his jump shot will take a long time to come around.

 

WHAT A DIFFERENCE A YEAR MAKES EH????

 

So if you want to bash my idea, be prepared for me to bring this back up and shove your words right back at you if Gortat leaves and we start seeing him hit jumper after Jumper.

 

I will point out that Detroit felt the same way about Okur. That he would never be much of an offensive threat. Just a grossly overpaid back up quality center.

 

I should also point out that we made this same mistake once back when John Gabriel pegged Ben Wallace as a grossly overpaid back up. Ben just went on to win back to back to back defensive player of the year honors.

 

When you have a player with obvious talent in the NBA. You keep him. There is a reason Gortat averaged more Rebounds and Blocks per 48 minutes than Dwight. He has talent. And if he gave you nothin else but defense Magic fans should be happy for that.

 

There is only one basketball. Vince can get his own shot. Lewis at SF can shoot over anyone who guards him. Nelson can take every point guard off the dribble and Dwight cannot be stopped unless double teamed. So saying Gortat is not our best option at PF is preposterous. He is the best available big man out there. Dwight is better equipped to play defense on Power Forwards than Gortat. But give the chance to start together and learn how to play off each other, I do not see the same problems continuing as they are now when they are on the court. They are both smart basketball players and have shown the ability to learn quickly and apply what they learned.

There has to be the story of a blind squirrel in here somewhere...

[COLOMBIANO 118]

quote:

Originally posted by MagicFanBen:

I would like to point out to all you idiots out there that think I am well off here with my start him at PF position. EVERYONE on this board flamed me when I said Ariza should be the starting SG. Everyone said he may have the defense ability but he will never hit a 3 and his jump shot will take a long time to come around.

 

WHAT A DIFFERENCE A YEAR MAKES EH????

 

So if you want to bash my idea, be prepared for me to bring this back up and shove your words right back at you if Gortat leaves and we start seeing him hit jumper after Jumper.

 

I will point out that Detroit felt the same way about Okur. That he would never be much of an offensive threat. Just a grossly overpaid back up quality center.

 

I should also point out that we made this same mistake once back when John Gabriel pegged Ben Wallace as a grossly overpaid back up. Ben just went on to win back to back to back defensive player of the year honors.

 

When you have a player with obvious talent in the NBA. You keep him. There is a reason Gortat averaged more Rebounds and Blocks per 48 minutes than Dwight. He has talent. And if he gave you nothin else but defense Magic fans should be happy for that.

 

There is only one basketball. Vince can get his own shot. Lewis at SF can shoot over anyone who guards him. Nelson can take every point guard off the dribble and Dwight cannot be stopped unless double teamed. So saying Gortat is not our best option at PF is preposterous. He is the best available big man out there. Dwight is better equipped to play defense on Power Forwards than Gortat. But give the chance to start together and learn how to play off each other, I do not see the same problems continuing as they are now when they are on the court. They are both smart basketball players and have shown the ability to learn quickly and apply what they learned.

 

Agree to disagree. There is nothing wrong about backing up your poor point, but you need to learn to admit you are not right!

[Drain-O 369]

I feel like every post you make you are screaming at me and quite frankly I am enjoying it.

 

I would also like to bow at the feet of your vast basketball acumen in saying that Trevor Ariza should start over Keith Bogans and Jonathan Redick.

 

I think the board was very split on the trade so lets not act like you were some hero sounding the Trevor Ariza horn like a prophet.

 

As for your Marcin take if he ever develops into a power forward in the league and is a good one at that then feel free to call me an idiot all you want. I for one think WarBear is a center.

[New Guy 11]

You cant liken Gortat to Okur. Okur was always seen as a potential offensive threat. He has a game that extends to well past the three point line. Gortat has nothing of the sort. He's a pretty finesse style big man who makes his living with more lay ups than anything, in the paint.

[MagicFanBen 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Mr Charisma:

quote:

Originally posted by MagicFanBen:

quote:

Originally posted by DuvalMagicFan:

makes sense. i personally think we should keep Gortat AND Turk, but that's just me.

 

Well no one would dispute that, but the fact is Carter will command the ball on offense. If you start Gortat, you know we are going to be the toughest team on defense in the league. just look at this years team compared to the one that went to the finals. Compare their defense.

 

PG Nelson = Nelson

SG Carter > Lee

SF Lewis > Hedo

PF Gortat > Lewis

C Howard = Howard

 

That is just a comparison on Defense. WE got bigger and better with Vince on defense at the SG position. Lewis is a better defender than Hedo by a mile when he guards the small forwards. Gortat is a better defender than Lewis by a mile when guarding the PF/C position.

 

Defense wins championships. If Gortat was a more polished offensive player last year, we could have played the Lakers a lot tougher on the boards and in the post. It just makes sense

 

The biggest problem with the Lakers we had was getting out rebounded. Now look at the difference in the player stats when it comes to rebounding.

 

PG Nelson = Nelson

SG Carter > Lee

SF Lewis > Hedo

PF Gortat > Lewis

C Howard = Howard

I have no problem using this lineup. I do not think it is the lineup to use in most matchup situations. Maybe 8-10 minutes a game on average.

 

I also have to disagree with your assessment that Shard is a better defender and rebounder than Hedo. Defensively, they are equals. As rebounders, Hedo is better. And saying that Carter is defensively better than Lee is a stretch also. Just my opinion on those, but it certainly changes the look of your equations.

 

I really do hope we can re-sign Gortat.

 

Statistically speaking Lewis was better than Hedo in every season except for 07-08. But that was Lewis's first season with the Magic and first season playing PF. When he played SF with the Sonics, he out rebounded Hedo by a large margin. His last year in Seattle 06-07 both Hedo and Lewis were the starters for their teams at SF. Lewis averaged 39.1 minutes per game and had 6.6 rebounds per game. Hedo averaged 31.1 minutes per game, started every game he played and only had 4 rebounds per game. So I hate to disagree with you on tis one, but Lewis has always been a better rebounder at the SF position. His rebounds have gone down at the PF position because he is usually getting muscled out by bigger power forwards and he plays next to the vacuum named Dwight. I would think putting him back at his natural position would only increase our team rebounding totals because now he is boxing out a smaller player and should have gained some skills playing against bigger players for the last 2 years.

[MagicFanBen 0]

quote:

Originally posted by COLOMBIANO:

quote:

Originally posted by MagicFanBen:

I would like to point out to all you idiots out there that think I am well off here with my start him at PF position. EVERYONE on this board flamed me when I said Ariza should be the starting SG. Everyone said he may have the defense ability but he will never hit a 3 and his jump shot will take a long time to come around.

 

WHAT A DIFFERENCE A YEAR MAKES EH????

 

So if you want to bash my idea, be prepared for me to bring this back up and shove your words right back at you if Gortat leaves and we start seeing him hit jumper after Jumper.

 

I will point out that Detroit felt the same way about Okur. That he would never be much of an offensive threat. Just a grossly overpaid back up quality center.

 

I should also point out that we made this same mistake once back when John Gabriel pegged Ben Wallace as a grossly overpaid back up. Ben just went on to win back to back to back defensive player of the year honors.

 

When you have a player with obvious talent in the NBA. You keep him. There is a reason Gortat averaged more Rebounds and Blocks per 48 minutes than Dwight. He has talent. And if he gave you nothin else but defense Magic fans should be happy for that.

 

There is only one basketball. Vince can get his own shot. Lewis at SF can shoot over anyone who guards him. Nelson can take every point guard off the dribble and Dwight cannot be stopped unless double teamed. So saying Gortat is not our best option at PF is preposterous. He is the best available big man out there. Dwight is better equipped to play defense on Power Forwards than Gortat. But give the chance to start together and learn how to play off each other, I do not see the same problems continuing as they are now when they are on the court. They are both smart basketball players and have shown the ability to learn quickly and apply what they learned.

 

Agree to disagree. There is nothing wrong about backing up your poor point, but you need to learn to admit you are not right!

 

I will gladly admit I am not right the first season Gortat fails on another team.

[MagicFanBen 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Drain-O:

I feel like every post you make you are screaming at me and quite frankly I am enjoying it.

 

I would also like to bow at the feet of your vast basketball acumen in saying that Trevor Ariza should start over Keith Bogans and Jonathan Redick.

 

I think the board was very split on the trade so lets not act like you were some hero sounding the Trevor Ariza horn like a prophet.

 

As for your Marcin take if he ever develops into a power forward in the league and is a good one at that then feel free to call me an idiot all you want. I for one think WarBear is a center.

 

I am not acting as a prophet. If I can find my post about it. I believe my point back then was almost the same as I have with Gortat now. With Nelson, Hedo, Lewis & Howard, starting Ariza with his then limited offensive game made a lot of sense because it gave us a defensive advantage and we did not need to rely on him to be an offensive player. I believe I used Bruce Bowen as an example of how the Spurs start him for defense and live with his terrible shots.

 

Sometimes when you have a team stacked like the Magic are on offense with Howard, Neslon, Lewis and Carter you need a defensive minded player. Gortat brings that. Defense and Rebounds should be his goal. SO I will use the same example as I did a year ago with Bruce Bowen. You start him because of what he brings on defense. Forget the offense. Anything offensively is a plus. The issues with him on the floor running in to Dwight is a defensive thing they will learn how to correct when playing with each other. what we saw this season when they ran in to each other was because they were both used to playing center. It is not like guys on the wings that can play with any other wing player. Big men have to learn how to play with each other and know where each one will be and command their own piece of space on the floor. The problems Gortat and Howard had would not exist 10 games in to the season.