The Bench.....

[Luke_FfS 251]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Luke_FfS:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

It needs a lot more than "PT". It needs new players.

 

DoM, you would probably "kill" me for what I'm going to say, but...

 

Boston rotation:

Tony Allen

Leon Powe

Eddie House

Glen Davis

+ Cassell (injured)

 

Boston "garbage time" players:

O'Bryant

Pruitt

Bill Walker

Scalabrine

 

 

Is that so much better of our bench?

Considering also that two of their starters not even average 10 points a game?

 

I would take Powe over Battie easily, and Eddie House is far superior to Anthony Johnson. Davis, Allen, and Cassell aren't exactly game breakers, and really I think Tony Allen is going to be a poor man's Courtney Lee in a year, but the issue with our bench is that the drop off from starter to bench player is drastic to a point that borders on cliff-face. Players like House and Powe can come in and contribute something. I frequently forget Battie is in the game because he's such a non-factor.

 

Like I said before, I think that Battie will help us a lot more coming playoff-time.

I will pick Powe too, but only because of age.

 

Anyway, I think that this is still a problem of confidence. Boston bench come in the game with a lot of support of coach and teammates (big three) and they looks like they're always playing for a ring.

A lot of times our reserves comes out flat and with the fear of making errors that will send them back on the bench very soon.

 

Maybe it's just a wrong impression, but I'm convinced that our bench is a lot better than what has showed until now, and not so far from Boston talent wise.

[Mat 4]

quote:

Originally posted by Luke_FfS:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Luke_FfS:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

It needs a lot more than "PT". It needs new players.

 

DoM, you would probably "kill" me for what I'm going to say, but...

 

Boston rotation:

Tony Allen

Leon Powe

Eddie House

Glen Davis

+ Cassell (injured)

 

Boston "garbage time" players:

O'Bryant

Pruitt

Bill Walker

Scalabrine

 

 

Is that so much better of our bench?

Considering also that two of their starters not even average 10 points a game?

 

I would take Powe over Battie easily, and Eddie House is far superior to Anthony Johnson. Davis, Allen, and Cassell aren't exactly game breakers, and really I think Tony Allen is going to be a poor man's Courtney Lee in a year, but the issue with our bench is that the drop off from starter to bench player is drastic to a point that borders on cliff-face. Players like House and Powe can come in and contribute something. I frequently forget Battie is in the game because he's such a non-factor.

 

Like I said before, I think that Battie will help us a lot more coming playoff-time.

I will pick Powe too, but only because of age.

 

Anyway, I think that this is still a problem of confidence. Boston bench come in the game with a lot of support of coach and teammates (big three) and they looks like they're always playing for a ring.

A lot of times our reserves comes out flat and with the fear of making errors that will send them back on the bench very soon.

 

Maybe it's just a wrong impression, but I'm convinced that our bench is a lot better than what has showed until now, and not so far from Boston talent wise.

 

Agree with you my friend, is guess the problem with our bench is that we haven

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by Luke_FfS:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by Luke_FfS:

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

It needs a lot more than "PT". It needs new players.

 

DoM, you would probably "kill" me for what I'm going to say, but...

 

Boston rotation:

Tony Allen

Leon Powe

Eddie House

Glen Davis

+ Cassell (injured)

 

Boston "garbage time" players:

O'Bryant

Pruitt

Bill Walker

Scalabrine

 

 

Is that so much better of our bench?

Considering also that two of their starters not even average 10 points a game?

 

I would take Powe over Battie easily, and Eddie House is far superior to Anthony Johnson. Davis, Allen, and Cassell aren't exactly game breakers, and really I think Tony Allen is going to be a poor man's Courtney Lee in a year, but the issue with our bench is that the drop off from starter to bench player is drastic to a point that borders on cliff-face. Players like House and Powe can come in and contribute something. I frequently forget Battie is in the game because he's such a non-factor.

 

Like I said before, I think that Battie will help us a lot more coming playoff-time.

I will pick Powe too, but only because of age.

 

Anyway, I think that this is still a problem of confidence. Boston bench come in the game with a lot of support of coach and teammates (big three) and they looks like they're always playing for a ring.

A lot of times our reserves comes out flat and with the fear of making errors that will send them back on the bench very soon.

 

Maybe it's just a wrong impression, but I'm convinced that our bench is a lot better than what has showed until now, and not so far from Boston talent wise.

 

The logic that Battie would be a big help this year is one I've found consistently mystifying because he wasn't much help when he was healthy and 2 years younger 2 years ago.

 

As for the confidence issue, no amount of confidence or lack there of should change your commitment and your energy. Most of our bench plays like zombies, and it's very noticeable. A key difference between our bench and someone like Boston's is that their 13th man has more energy in game situations than our 8th man does most games.

[fan for too long 16]

Powe, Allen and House are better than any player we have on the bench right now. But how can I tell ours doesn't get pt.

[Luke_FfS 251]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

The logic that Battie would be a big help this year is one I've found consistently mystifying because he wasn't much help when he was healthy and 2 years younger 2 years ago.

 

I can accept your point of view here, but it's a matter of opinion in which this forum is probably divided into two.

My point is: a player like Toni is always worth more coming playoff-time than in regular season, expecially in our team where size and experience it's something needed.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm still convinced that last year series with Detroit could have been different with Battie.

 

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

As for the confidence issue, no amount of confidence or lack there of should change your commitment and your energy. Most of our bench plays like zombies, and it's very noticeable. A key difference between our bench and someone like Boston's is that their 13th man has more energy in game situations than our 8th man does most games.

 

If is not confidence, what's the cause from your point of view?

It's only players characters, or there's something more?

[KillingInTheNameOf 63]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

The logic that Battie would be a big help this year is one I've found consistently mystifying because he wasn't much help when he was healthy and 2 years younger 2 years ago.

 

As for the confidence issue, no amount of confidence or lack there of should change your commitment and your energy. Most of our bench plays like zombies, and it's very noticeable. A key difference between our bench and someone like Boston's is that their 13th man has more energy in game situations than our 8th man does most games.

 

Bingo!

 

I'm not exactly a fan of Eddie House, but James Posey & Leon Powe were the keys to Boston's bench last year and Posey put up a blistering 7 & 4. Stats tell a story, they don't tell the whole story.

[babad 0]

the problem is that our bench doesn't get enough minutes to get into a rythem. if we ever get an injury to one of our starters not pietrus.

we can't absorb it because our bench doesn't has the confidence.

last night we where up by 25 at half I thinkt and still JJ, Cook and others (sorry that I bring them up but they're the first to pop in) just play 3 minutes.

use them, and rest our starters, they're gonna play enough

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by Luke_FfS:

If is not confidence, what's the cause from your point of view?

It's only players characters, or there's something more?

 

Part of it is just an across the board lack of talent, but the bigger issue in my mind is that we have a lot of players of the AAU mindset who want to get on tv and don't want to do little things. The annoucers made a big deal of Lee hustling last night to get back in transition and get a steal. That's nice, but every player should hustle like that, or close to it, not just Lee. It's why Lee looks so good by comparison to the rest of our bench: he works every second he's on the court, and even when he screws up, you know he's putting forth the effort, both to do it right the first time and to correct it when he gets it wrong.

 

If our whole bench played with that kind of energy, far fewer people would be complaining.

[Orl Native 0]

Well it must be time for a *** Otis thread. Great job building a inferior bench. Part of it is the players we have, but a big part of it is actual the amount of pt they get. I just dont understand why SVG doesnt run these guys in and out more when we have a comfortable lead?? Thats how you build a bench isnt it? I mean just look at Boston at the beginning of last year, everyone said thier bench was their weakness, it ended up helping them to a championship because Doc was grooming them early on.

[babad 0]

we miss a sixth man, but actually have the perfect guy for it. in jameer or maybe even turk

they would be perfect of the bench.

a direct scoring punch to our second unit.

look at the spurs with ginobli (last year) or with the jazz.

they put a good player (startertype) on the bench. he gets the same amount of minutes but brings extra energy

[Luke_FfS 251]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

Part of it is just an across the board lack of talent, but the bigger issue in my mind is that we have a lot of players of the AAU mindset who want to get on tv and don't want to do little things. The annoucers made a big deal of Lee hustling last night to get back in transition and get a steal. That's nice, but every player should hustle like that, or close to it, not just Lee. It's why Lee looks so good by comparison to the rest of our bench: he works every second he's on the court, and even when he screws up, you know he's putting forth the effort, both to do it right the first time and to correct it when he gets it wrong.

 

If our whole bench played with that kind of energy, far fewer people would be complaining.

 

Same thinking here.

 

But, like Orl Native said

 

quote:

Originally posted by Orl Native:

I mean just look at Boston at the beginning of last year, everyone said thier bench was their weakness, it ended up helping them to a championship because Doc was grooming them early on.

 

I mean, Cook has eventually more talent and range than any other big man on our team not named Dwight.

But he's one of those zombies (and a whining one) and he doesn't deserve any minutes for that.

 

But Gortat in my eyes is just like Lee.

In a different position and not so athletic, but this kind of guy that put a great effort everytime he plays. Maybe he's not talented like Powe, but he plays hard.

You have to play him, or all the rest of the bench will think that there's no reason to put a strong effort if you're going to ride the bench anyway.

 

Last year, even Auggie and Pat were playing in meaningful games a lot of times... only to find Gortat stealing those minutes in playoffs for the first time of the year.

[CoachTsurfing 0]

I didn't really start the thread to be about jj and cook. I was just thinking as a whole that this was the first time in the past 3 or 4 games that anyone other then the starters saw the floor really. After the Ok. game matty g. was saying that we had a bunch of role players that didn't really do much on the bench. I can't remember exactly what he said. But, something along those lines. And I started thinking about how svg feels about the bench. He's made it no secret that he doesn't have faith in them. And then about how Otis must feel. I mean he puts together the team. Does he wonder why they don't get to play? Does he care? If it was my job to go out and get players, make trades, scouting, I'd wonder why the heck my hard work wasn't paying off. And then I just went off a little on jj and cook thought process. I guess I'd be happy but at the same time thinking it was a bit of a slap in the face. 3-4 minutes at the end of the game when it's already decided is different in the middle of the game.