Do the Magic need to make a trade?

[SmackDaddy 30]

Just calling it like I see it.

 

Arroyo & JJ are expendable and still have trade value. Neither of those two players are versatile at all, and are in fact rather limited in their skill set.

 

BTW, If I see Carlos attempt one more playground, AND1, dribble move, I'm going to run out on the court and strip his azz myself.

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by murphy13:

jj will be a valuable asset to this team. we do not need to trade him. if for any reason other than the fact that we wont be able to get equal value in return, as his rookie contract isnt very inticing. all championship teams that have won more than one championship had a sharp shooter like jj. think about it...at the very least he will be the best free throw shooter in the nba. we need that!

 

LOL!!!

 

Equal value??? He's 3rd-4th string at best. Ditch him before he proves to be a complete bust.

[Emory889 353]

quote:

SVG reviving his career my A!!! Pat sucks.

 

LMAO, I'm lovin the retired LGM. Pat still has some value on the floor even if his shot isn't falling. He has proven to be a good shooter over the years so defenders are still going to respect his reputation and guard him close. Besides, he will become hesitant if he misses a couple and Stan yanks him out of the game. That actually has a Brian Hill ring to it.

 

Personally, I don't think JJ is going to be traded. The more likely scenarios are Arroyo and Garrity because of there expiring contracts. JJ at his current rookie salary is to much of a bargain to let go. That way we have Dooling and JJ at the backup guards and Ariza coming in to spell Rashard/Turk.

 

quote:

I pretty sure Otis is thinking of trades we can pull off without losing too much.

 

Reggie Evans would've been a great addition. Paul Millsap anyone?

 

I agree Nyce, a big has to be Otis' first priority. However unless Otis points a gun on Jerry Sloan we aren't getting Millsap. I keep looking at the Lakers frontcourt. They currently have 6 big men on their team. I would gladly take Turiaf (love his game), Cook or Mihm. The only issue is that the Lakers would probably want Dooling over Arroyo.

[Emory889 353]

quote:

Originally posted by murphy13:

jj will be a valuable asset to this team. we do not need to trade him. if for any reason other than the fact that we wont be able to get equal value in return, as his rookie contract isnt very inticing. all championship teams that have won more than one championship had a sharp shooter like jj. think about it...at the very least he will be the best free throw shooter in the nba. we need that!

 

Not to underscore the importance of good free throw shooting but...it only helps if JJ actually gets to the line. If JJ gets to the line 6 times in a game it will be a miracle.

[Knappy 0]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

I know a bunch of you guys may think I'm jumping the gun on this one, but hear me out. This is only being based on last night's game against the Bucks.

 

Let's look at all 5 positions.

 

PG -

Jameer Nelson Looked good. His shot wasn't falling from outside, but he more than made up for it by dishing to open teammates and discovered a new commitment to playing defense. Overall his game didn't look much different than last year. The biggest difference is that he has teammates all over the court that can knock down the open jump shot. It's no coincidence that Mo Williams ended the game with 9pts and 1 assist on 28% shooting. Jameer was in his grill the whole night.

Carlos Arroyo Didn't look too good. When the second unit was in the game at the beginning of the second quarter, the Bucks opened up their only lead of the game. In the second half when the game was a blowoout and already decided, he was looking for his own shot (pull up 3pointers of all things) instead of setting up the offense and getting the youngsters involved.

 

SG-

Keith Bogans Unfortunately Bogans caught Redd on a night when he was filling it up from everywhere (and getting the benefit of all-star calls from the refs). He only played 18 minutes as a result of foul trouble and the second half blowout. He seems to fit the Bruce Bowen type mold, but won't continue to receive praise if he can't grab a single rebound.

Keyon Dooling Hmmm... I'm a little confused about SVG's choice to have Dooling play the backup SG position. He uses his energy well, but seems to be a smaller, less physical version of Bogans with no outside jumpshot. Would seem like a more natural defensive option at the PG.

JJ Redick You can't really get a good read about JJ's role with the team after last night. 8 minutes playing time is not enough time for a shooter to get into a solid rhythem. He also seemed to be on the other end of a few favorable all-star calls from the refs. In case you guys didn't notice, Redd didn't score a single point when JJ was on the floor.

 

SF -

Rashard Lewis If he keeps playing like this, the amount of money he makes will be forgotten about quickly. He was draining shots from everywhere. Wow! In 40 minutes he would project to being a 30pt per game player.

Trevor Ariza I guess you put Ariza at the backup SF spot, but with the rotation that SVG employed, it doesn't seem like there is a backup...just a bunch of interchangable forwards. Trevor must be frustrated after last night's game. Hopefully he can be used as a more solid part of the rotation.

 

PF -

Hedo Turkoglu I guess he's the starting PF, he was matched up with Yi all night. He looked darn good and very decisive about taking shots. We all talked about how Rashard would exploit PFs at the position all Summer, well it appears that Turk can hold his own defensively and take em on the other end.

Pat Garrity Seriously? 25 minutes for Garrity. He hit his first shot and then went 0-3 the remainder of the game. He did grab 4 rebounds and has very solid fundamentals, but his knee problems and struggles the last few seasons probably mean he should only get 5-10 minutes per game.

 

C -

Dwight Howard An absolute beast! 80% from the FT line! 7 blocks! Still a few TO concerns, but overall he looked a lot more patient on offense and didn't panic when the double team came. The floor was opened up for everybody to operate efficiently due to Dwight's command of the post. I could rave all day, but we all know how good Dwight is.

Adonal Foyle A very solid backup. Probably won't get too many more than 15 minutes per game (unless every game is a blowout).

 

OK. Now let's get to the point of this post. After watching two of our supposed young studs (Ariza & JJ) barely get off the bench long enough to break a sweat, while watching Garrity get more playing time than he's logged in 3-4 years, it seems very apparent that we need to orchestrate a trade.

IMO, the Magic would be much better served to use Dooling in a backup PG role. Putting him at the SG actually neutralizes the height and energy advantage he would have at the PG spot, and it would give us a change of pace behind Jameer. If you want more defense at the SG position, than why not put Ariza in? He causes serious problems for SGs with his lenght and can rebound and run the break like no other option. If you want to bring in a light it up scorer when the opponent doesn't have their own big time scoring option on the floor, than JJ should get in the game.

I cannot stress this enough. Garrity should not get off the bench. I don't care how much he spreads the floor. During many points this season, we are going to need an enforcer. Garrity is too soft and will eventually crumble under the pressure of guarding big, bulky monsters in the post. He is a liability.

 

So with an abundance of guards and a thin front court, what should the Magic do?

Well, if Bogans is the answer at SG (and he very well could be), why do we need another shooter coming off the bench? Bogans has molded himself into one heck of a shooter and defensive specialist. So is there a need for JJ? Also, if SVG has the option of using Dooling at the SG, instead of the more fitting backup PG position, why do we need JJ?

 

Having said that...I have already stated that ideally I would like to see Dooling come off the bench at the PG position as a change of pace defensive guy. Arroyo is too much like Jameer but doesn't have an outside shot.

 

Therefore, I think the Magic should begin looking immediately for a trade partner that would be interested in a package of Arroyo & Redick (maybe a pick) for a PF that can start if necessary. Arroyo can easily start in this league, but won't beat out Jameer for too many minutes. Redick still has his stellar college reputation to lean on. So while both players still have some value, let's deal them. This would help solidify our frontcourt rotation and provide more of an opportunity for Ariza to get on the court and Dooling to play the more natural PG.

 

Interesting analysis and good comments. I agree with your analysis - I don't want to see Garrity out there for those kind of minutes and I agree you keep him to 5 to 8 minutes or less and I think you need to get Ariza out there for 25 minutes - maybe SVG just doesn't know what he has yet in Ariza and Garrity - one being good and one being bad - he hasn't figured that out yet.

 

On moving Arroyo I agree with that - JJ didn't add much last night other than his man had to stay with him and on one ocassion it left Turk wide open for a three as the defender couldn't leave JJ to cover Turk on a semi-fast break and Turk hit the shot. I would like to get another big player, but I am not so quick to let go of JJ yet, but if the right deal were there I would be open to it - I'd want a very solid player if we were to move JJ, but I would like to see JJ play more as I think he could extend a lead and help us put teams away and I am not sold on Bogans although he does look better than I expected - I didn't expect much out of him.

 

I agree with your analysis of Carlos and I think we are better off keeping Dooling as a backup. I would rather try to hold onto JJ and see if we could move Carlos and Garrity together - I know you would be all for that - I think you mention JJ to try and enable us to get a better player, but I would see what can be done without losing JJ.

 

Overall, good analysis and I agree with your assessment on all the players per your post. I am glad that you recognized that Jameer played well - I thought he did and I thought his shot selection was good -he just didn't hit his shots - he is a good shooter and he'll have off nights - he hasn't shot well in preseason or the first game. Probably still a little rusty and he had a lot on his mind yesterday and during the preseason - he should settle down - he is trying to figure out his role a little bit just like Lewis.

[andie 0]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

quote:

Originally posted by andie:

Geez Smack-We win the first game of the season by 19 and you are talking trade already??? Good thing Otis is the GM.

 

You're just mad cause I'm doggin on your boy JJ.

 

LOL. You are right there Smack.

 

But, seriously, how do we really know what we have? How will each player fit into SVG's system? Look at Garrity. Who would have thought he would get any minutes much less serious minutes. Pre-season told us something about this team but not a lot. SVG is still working out his rotations. And, God forbid, that we should have another serious injury to one of our key players.

 

We are not under the gun as far as a deadline. Otis has done well in this off-season IMO. Let's let him work his Magic. Pun intended.

 

Smack-And leave my boy JJ alone!!!!!!

[Emory889 353]

Knappy why do you insist on quoting every single post regardless of how long it is? Instead of quoting Smacks post why don't you just say "Smack, I agree with your opening post" and then go on and elaborate about it. You make these threads twice as long when you quote someone for no reason.

 

I shouldn't have to explain this to someone with over 2000 posts.

[andie 0]

Try to remember that JJ hurt his hand last week and it still may not be 100%

[Murphy13 185]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

quote:

Originally posted by murphy13:

jj will be a valuable asset to this team. we do not need to trade him. if for any reason other than the fact that we wont be able to get equal value in return, as his rookie contract isnt very inticing. all championship teams that have won more than one championship had a sharp shooter like jj. think about it...at the very least he will be the best free throw shooter in the nba. we need that!

 

LOL!!!

 

Equal value??? He's 3rd-4th string at best. Ditch him before he proves to be a complete bust.

 

if we put him on the market...i promise you, every title contender will try to get him. because(answering your question too emory), at the end of the game, when the other team is over the limit and looking to foul...who would you pass the ball in to? think about it smack. you are underrating jj hardcore. he has a niche, and would be a number 1 sub for many teams. go through some video of championship teams and see who gets put on the line at the end of the games...steve kerr? derek fisher? brent barry? all 80%+ free throw shooters that arent exactly all around players. do some research, instead of using bias.

[Knappy 0]

quote:

Originally posted by ball junkie:

Smack wantin to trade J.J.(LOL) I gotta agree though. How much is he necessary? What I noticed was when Redick played in the 2nd quarter and Dwight wasn't in the game, J.J. had absolutely NO chance of even attempting a shot.

 

I was sitting there thinking, why does he even need to be out there if he can't attempt a shot?

 

I know you wanna talk trade Smack but what I really wanna talk about is Otis's grand plan to start Rashard at the 4 and Turk at the 3.

 

I have to admit I've been skeptical(because of defensive vulnerability) about it all summer long. I realize it's only 1 regular season game, but, "DANG" that line-up was impressive last night!

 

Man, Turk was abusing Yin Jinlian(going to the hole). Both Rashard and Turk can put the ball on the floor. I realize some nights we are probably gonna be overmatched(physically) but had no idea until seeing it in action how much of a match-up problem it would create for the "opposition".

 

Sorry to high-jack your thread Smack but I'm tiring of talking trades, salary cap and the business part of the league.

 

By the way, Redd had 18 points at halftime but only 7 after that. When Bogans started clamping down on him in the 3rd quarter it was over. Not only was Bogans picking up his defense(making Redd work harder) but the whole team picked it up.

 

I like Ariza in there to help with rebounding with that group and with others on the floor. That flat stretch we also didn't rebound well and Garrity is out there when we could of had Ariza out there - I hope that changes soon - Garrity does not need to play and Ariza should be on the floor more.

 

I like what JJ brings although he did little last night - I'd like us to give JJ time to develop - I wouldn't be in favor of a trade right now unless it brought in a stud player with JJ being part of a package.

[SmackDaddy 30]

I wouldn't object at all to a second unit featuring Dooling at the PG and Redick at the SG. This way Dooling can cover whichever guard is the biggest scoring threat.

I just don't like the role Arroyo plays with this team and would love to find mor eminutes for Ariza. So if it's a deal including Arroyo & Garrity, fine.

 

The one thing I loved seing last night was SVG's rotation. We had a starting scoring threat on the court at all times. Last season I got sick of watching B Hill unload our entire bench all at once while resting all 5 starters.

[Knappy 0]

quote:

Originally posted by emory889:

Knappy why do you insist on quoting every single post regardless of how long it is? Instead of quoting Smacks post why don't you just say "Smack, I agree with your opening post" and then go on and elaborate about it. You make these threads twice as long when you quote someone for no reason.

 

I shouldn't have to explain this to someone with over 2000 posts.

 

I do it just to piss you off Emory - LOL. He has made many posts so I am responding to a particular post - he has posted about 30 times in this thread. I guess I could try to quote just a part of his post.