Smack Confidential 2:

[MagicNoles 0]

quote:

One day after coming to a verbal agreement with free agent Rashard Lewis, the Orlando Magic withdrew their qualifying offer for restricted free agent Darko Milicic on Tuesday.

 

In effect, the move means the Magic have made Milicic an unrestricted free agent. However the team still retains the right to go over the salary cap to re-sign him (commonly referred to in the NBA as "Bird Rights") and could also work on a sign-and-trade with Seattle or another team.

 

still think we dont have his bird rights?

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2925284

[MagicmaninMiami 0]

IF we lose Darko which seems most likely now and don't get Wallace which is a long shot anyway then no Otis would not have done an admirable job. Rashard is a significant upgrade over second tier free agents but I am not at all certain that its that much better than keeping Darko and getting one of the second tiers. If we do get a sign and trade with Seattle it will be even worse because in the likelihood of not getting Wallace we could have had space to keep Darko. Jury's still out on this move.

[MagicNoles 0]

and ive posted 40+ times today....im ashamed of myself

[MilitaryMagic 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Drain-O:

quote:

Originally posted by morlegend:

quote:

Originally posted by Drain-O:

quote:

Originally posted by MilitaryMagic:

SmackDaddy, don't cop an attitude with me, don't insinuate you should apologize to me b/c I'm not intelligent enough to respect information that came from the league office. Not for a minute have I disputed that report. I'm disputing your assumptions about stuff, like saying renouncing a player and removing a qualifying offer are the same thing. Find me literature that asserts that. And quote it and fricken smash my face in it, until then, slow your roll.

 

This is directly from the NBAPA website of the CBA...

 

(2) A Team cannot renounce any player to whom the Team has made a Qualifying Offer until such time as the Qualifying Offer is no longer in effect.

 

By pulling the qualifying offer they renounced him.

 

how'd you get that? all i got is that you have to pull the qualifying offer before you renounce the player. i actually think "militarymagic" is right on this one.

 

I assumed they work hand in hand. Why would you pull the qualifying offer and not renounce a player. If the Magic just remove the qualifying offer his cap hold still exists does it not. Why would one step not immediately lead to the next.

 

Drain-O! I miss your lil penny avatar, lol.

 

This is pretty hard to explain, I'll do my best:

 

By renouncing the qualifying offer, we ensure that Milicic cannot sign the offer and count against our cap on a "permanant" basis.

 

Suppose that Milicic signed the qualifying offer - if he did so, that contract will take a chunk out of our "theoretical" cap space.

 

Now, currently, we still have rights to Darko, but we have made sure that we can still renounce Darko later if need be.

 

This gives us a small window. Currently, since we still have rights to Darko, he still has that massive cap hold of like $16mil almost. Without renouncing Darko, we can still S&T for Shard using matching or near-matching (+/- 25%), and then we can sign Darko to whatever we please, since we hold his Bird Rights.

 

If we want to do a S&T where Seattle takes back less salary than we get from them, then we'll have to renounc Darko to free up that cap space to allow the trade to work under CBA.

 

If we want to sign Rashard outright, we need to renounce Darko to free up that cap space.

 

So, there's just a small chance that we could S&T for matching salaries for Shard from Seattle, and then use Darko's bird rights and make everyone happy. We're affording ourselves this opportunity while no longer being concerned that Darko may pull a sneak attack and sign the qualifying offer, which would turn everything on its side, cap-wise.

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by MagicNoles:

and ive posted 40+ times today....im ashamed of myself

 

I've easily doubled that.

[MagicNoles 0]

and also john hollinger or whatever his name is says even if we lose darko we are off to an excellent start this summer

 

quote:

Additionally, adding Lewis and renouncing Milicic is a clear upgrade. While Milicic's potential is notable, few would ponder a Milicic-for-Lewis trade for long before pulling the trigger.

 

That's why the deal ends up being a winner from Orlando's end. This team still has plenty of work to do to separate itself from the East's huddled masses, but between the hiring of Stan Van Gundy and the impending signing of Lewis, nobody has had a better start to their offseason than the Magic.

 

John Hollinger writes for ESPN Insider. To e-mail him, click here.

 

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by MilitaryMagic:

By renouncing the qualifying offer, we ensure that Milicic cannot sign the offer and count against our cap on a "permanant" basis.

 

Suppose that Milicic signed the qualifying offer - if he did so, that contract will take a chunk out of our "theoretical" cap space.

 

Now, currently, we still have rights to Darko, but we have made sure that we can still renounce Darko later if need be.

 

This gives us a small window. Currently, since we still have rights to Darko, he still has that massive cap hold of like $16mil almost. Without renouncing Darko, we can still S&T for Shard using matching or near-matching (+/- 25%), and then we can sign Darko to whatever we please, since we hold his Bird Rights.

 

If we want to do a S&T where Seattle takes back less salary than we get from them, then we'll have to renounc Darko to free up that cap space to allow the trade to work under CBA.

 

If we want to sign Rashard outright, we need to renounce Darko to free up that cap space.

 

So, there's just a small chance that we could S&T for matching salaries for Shard from Seattle, and then use Darko's bird rights and make everyone happy. We're affording ourselves this opportunity while no longer being concerned that Darko may pull a sneak attack and sign the qualifying offer, which would turn everything on its side, cap-wise.

 

I thought I read two disputing facts today. One said that salaries don't need to match with one team being under the cap. Isn't this how teams can clear more cap space? Just like what we did with the Clippers & Maggette years back that provided us with the cash to get McGrady & Grant.

 

Another said that 50% of the new players average salary is what needs to be matched in a sign and trade, not 25% of similar value. That would mean that we only need to send Seattle 7.5 million in compensation to get a deal done.

[fishybashi 0]

quote:

Originally posted by MagicNoles:

and also john hollinger or whatever his name is says even if we lose darko we are off to an excellent start this summer

 

quote:

Additionally, adding Lewis and renouncing Milicic is a clear upgrade. While Milicic's potential is notable, few would ponder a Milicic-for-Lewis trade for long before pulling the trigger.

 

That's why the deal ends up being a winner from Orlando's end. This team still has plenty of work to do to separate itself from the East's huddled masses, but between the hiring of Stan Van Gundy and the impending signing of Lewis, nobody has had a better start to their offseason than the Magic.

 

John Hollinger writes for ESPN Insider. To e-mail him, click here.

 

 

Amen to that! Good point...

[MagicNoles 0]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

quote:

Originally posted by MilitaryMagic:

By renouncing the qualifying offer, we ensure that Milicic cannot sign the offer and count against our cap on a "permanant" basis.

 

Suppose that Milicic signed the qualifying offer - if he did so, that contract will take a chunk out of our "theoretical" cap space.

 

Now, currently, we still have rights to Darko, but we have made sure that we can still renounce Darko later if need be.

 

This gives us a small window. Currently, since we still have rights to Darko, he still has that massive cap hold of like $16mil almost. Without renouncing Darko, we can still S&T for Shard using matching or near-matching (+/- 25%), and then we can sign Darko to whatever we please, since we hold his Bird Rights.

 

If we want to do a S&T where Seattle takes back less salary than we get from them, then we'll have to renounc Darko to free up that cap space to allow the trade to work under CBA.

 

If we want to sign Rashard outright, we need to renounce Darko to free up that cap space.

 

So, there's just a small chance that we could S&T for matching salaries for Shard from Seattle, and then use Darko's bird rights and make everyone happy. We're affording ourselves this opportunity while no longer being concerned that Darko may pull a sneak attack and sign the qualifying offer, which would turn everything on its side, cap-wise.

 

I thought I read two disputing facts today. One said that salaries don't need to match with one team being under the cap. Isn't this how teams can clear more cap space? Just like what we did with the Clippers & Maggette years back that provided us with the cash to get McGrady & Grant.

 

Another said that 50% of the new players average salary is what needs to be matched in a sign and trade, not 25% of similar value. That would mean that we only need to send Seattle 7.5 million in compensation to get a deal done.

 

yeah i also thought a trade when 1 team is under the cap (or one team will be under the cap once the trade is completed?) the salaries dont have to match...ive always thought this. Anyone have the word o this kuz i refuse to look anything more up tonight LOL

[MilitaryMagic 0]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

Ok, I've thought about it and think I have discovered a more diplomatic resolution. Sorry if you thought I was insulting you. Just exhausted from explaining the same thing for the last 13 hours. Not to mention, reading over the Salary Cap rules and interpreting them properly is about as easy as translating the Lost Sea Scrolls.

 

No matter if we call it renouncing or removing a qualifying offer, I'm sure we can all agree that Otis has done an admirable job today by carefully calculating his moves.

 

Regardless of how Darko's agent feels, Otis has ensured we will land our scoring threat. By doing it in the manner he did, he has reduced Seattle's negotiating leverage that creates a sign and trade scenario that could potentially dump our undesirable, expirig contracts to a team that favors them.

 

This would give us enough cap room to pursue another impact player through free agency (notice that G Wallace is one of the few remaining names that hasn't been mentioned in reports elsewhere).

 

Once this is completed, we can turn our attention to either signing Darko to an extension or a sign and trade that brings in compensation.

 

A while back Otis said that he "wanted it all" this Summer. Well, from what I've seen the last 3 days, that very well could come true, and it couldn't have possibly happened had he went about it any other way.

 

You know what man, you really do have a great knack for making great points. You've been on the money today, regardless of the semantics, that Otis is really opening to door to a world of possibilities. I apologize for taking a massive dump on your first thread, I overreacted and should not have CAPPED IT OUT if you know what I mean.

 

He's really forcing the issue by saying he'll sign Rashard outright. It forces Seattle to bend to our will and it also forces Darko to bend to our will. It's freaking great stuff to watch unfold.

 

I'm a bit of a pessimist though... it only takes one or two people to refuse to work with us simply based on principle. If Seattle thumbs their noses at us just to be dicks, then we are up a creek and all that talk of losing Darko for nothing begins gaining some serious steam.

 

Regardless, I too commend Otis for being such a freakin' baller that he's rolling both Seattle AND Cornstein in one swift move. Good stuff, indeed!

[Stone_Temple_Kiwi 0]

i've read a lot of the posts and think i understand the situation...but....

 

this is gonna sound stupid to probably all of you...but how does seattle benefit by making the sign and trade??

 

rashard obviously benefits by getting his 6th year

 

the magic lose players that hold against our cap and get "punished" by having to resportedly take back earl watson who i love and makes what? a little more than arroyo and we get reshard

 

seattle gets expiring contracts but are they getting as much value as us?....could'

nt they just buy out there contracts and punish lewis and us for leaveing/taking away their star player?

 

absolutely feel free not to answer this is stupid or you would be wasting your time...cheers

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by MilitaryMagic:

You know what man, you really do have a great knack for making great points. You've been on the money today, regardless of the semantics, that Otis is really opening to door to a world of possibilities. I apologize for taking a massive dump on your first thread, I overreacted and should not have CAPPED IT OUT if you know what I mean.

 

He's really forcing the issue by saying he'll sign Rashard outright. It forces Seattle to bend to our will and it also forces Darko to bend to our will. It's freaking great stuff to watch unfold.

 

I'm a bit of a pessimist though... it only takes one or two people to refuse to work with us simply based on principle. If Seattle thumbs their noses at us just to be dicks, then we are up a creek and all that talk of losing Darko for nothing begins gaining some serious steam.

 

Regardless, I too commend Otis for being such a freakin' baller that he's rolling both Seattle AND Cornstein in one swift move. Good stuff, indeed!

 

I phoned BallJunkie to talk about this earlier and told him that all of this must go perfectly for us to get everything that Otis desires. But wouldn't it be supremely amazing if it all did unfold flawlessly? What a Magical Summer it would be.