OldKenimport 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2013 Yep, your facts do more than Baffle me my friend... Beno is a good PG, probably better served on a team that runs more like a D'Antoni system. Beno is okay at the half court, but really his game is in transition. While Beno just got here, he has been in the league the same amount of time as Nelson, 8yrs deep. Now where Nelson and Beno diff is the fact that when Nelson had the chance to take on a starting role, Nelson played well enough to keep it. Beno on the other hand was in a tougher position being on the Spurs who had Tony Parker. But was given the same opportunity as Nelson when Beno went to the Kings. Beno didnt play well enough as a starter for the Kings, which prompted them to draft a PG. Beno has played more games than Nelson, 607 compared to 571. However Nelson has started twice as many games as Beno, 476 compared to 234. Career stat's wise isnt even close with Nelson leading 90% of the categories that are out there. And then there is the college material that goes along with these players. Nelson was a Co-player of the year... on a college team that wasnt big and often overlooked. Plus Nelson was a 1 time All Star. Description of an NBA PG: A NBA PG who someone who is the quarterback of the team and helps facilitate the offense and defensive sets. This individual needs to have a complete understanding of the system they play on both ends of the floor. This individual needs to be able to make fast and right decisions when reading the defense or offense.Typical NBA PG are anywhere from 5"11 to 6"4 with a decent ability to shoot but an above ability to see, read and pass. Typically they are not the focal point of the team, but people like Magic Johnson kind of change that. The one thing that I personally think all PG and players should have is this: HEART. And thats one thing I can say without a doubt in my mind that Nelson has over alot of PG's in this league.... Nelson has HEART. Where there is HEART, there is a great leadership and lessons to be shared among the young core, which will help them win us a championship. Derek Fisher isnt much of a PG either in a Stat conversation, but that dude has some serious Heart which has brought him many championships. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OldKenimport 0 Report post Posted March 5, 2013 I'm new here. I made a statement, a thought really. My mistake, but it sure is making the Jameer fans happy. If I must i will say "Jameer Nelson is a point guard" Not really I agree with your Description of an NBA PG. I don't think Jameer makes good decisions or that he passes well. His heart is on Jameer, not the team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barnettej 263 Report post Posted March 5, 2013 I'm new here. I made a statement, a thought really. My mistake, but it sure is making the Jameer fans happy. If I must i will say "Jameer Nelson is a point guard" Not really I agree with your Description of an NBA PG. I don't think Jameer makes good decisions or that he passes well. His heart is on Jameer, not the team. Ehh... Fair enough... You dont like Nelson and there for you think he isnt a good fit at the PG... I get that. I mean to be completely honest, its not like we are talking about Nelson from 7yrs ago. Meaning that the time for change at the PG position is coming fast and will soon have another name running point (praying on Smart). And Nelson will take a backseat on the bench... maybe he can finish a season healthy.. if not then im sure we will either have Beno or Moore ready to fill in. For the record... Im a Magic fan... always have been since 89. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trey Time 186 Report post Posted March 5, 2013 Even if we draft Smart I want Jameer to stay. I want one guy that I can look at and say he was here his whole career. Plus, buying someone's jersey (don't have his but have a jersey shirt) and then they leave, it's so awkward afterwards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Hi-Top 791 Report post Posted March 5, 2013 So comparing Career Average with a One Year Average is ok with you? Years 2010-2011 he averaged 6.0 2012-2013 he is averaging 7.4, Don't give me the Stan coaching style for a reason. If you want to ignore the play style and it's impact on assist numbers, by all means, feel free to stick your head in the sand and do so, I won't stop you, but I would be very interested to hear your personal theory on Jameer's sudden and statistically significant improvement in his assist numbers. Do you think he has better shooters around him? Maybe he has new team mates that have a higher shooting percentage than his old team mates? Perhaps we are playing at a much higher pace? Why do you think Jameer is averaging a career high number of assists per game, and don't give me the JV coaching style for a reason. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrueMagicFan07 675 Report post Posted March 5, 2013 I'm new here. I made a statement, a thought really. My mistake, but it sure is making the Jameer fans happy. If I must i will say "Jameer Nelson is a point guard" Not really I agree with your Description of an NBA PG. I don't think Jameer makes good decisions or that he passes well. His heart is on Jameer, not the team. I agree with you OldKenimport. I have been saying this like for the past 2 or 3 years. I even sided with Balljunkie on this topic when he was posting here, and some posters here jumped all over me for agreeing with Junkie. As I said before, Jameer is a serviceable point guard but he should not be the starting point guard. The Magic has no other choice to use him right now because of all the rookies, and when Jameer is "on" he helps keep us in the game. But as OldKenimport mentioned, Jameer does not make good decisions, he is not a good passer, and he turns the ball over a lot. I have observed these behaviors often when Jameer was on the court. And I have wondered if anyone else noticed it too. Sure, when Jameer is on, he looks world class. But Jameer is Way_Y_Y_Y to inconsistent By the way, Jameer is a shooting guard, not a point guard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trey Time 186 Report post Posted March 5, 2013 By the way, Jameer is a shooting guard, not a point guard. :svgsad: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Hi-Top 791 Report post Posted March 5, 2013 First... As I said before, Jameer is a serviceable point guard... By the way, Jameer is a shooting guard, not a point guard. :shard: Second... But as OldKenimport mentioned, Jameer does not make good decisions, he is not a good passer, and he turns the ball over a lot. I have observed these behaviors often when Jameer was on the court. And I have wondered if anyone else noticed it too. Top ten PG this season in Assists Per Game AND Assist to Turnover Ratio (tied for 10th with Beno here actually), but don't let the facts get in the way. I would suggest that your evaluation of his game is biased by preconceptions and/or that your expectations are unreasonable. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OldKenimport 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2013 If you want to ignore the play style and it's impact on assist numbers, by all means, feel free to stick your head in the sand and do so, I won't stop you, but I would be very interested to hear your personal theory on Jameer's sudden and statistically significant improvement in his assist numbers. Do you think he has better shooters around him? Maybe he has new team mates that have a higher shooting percentage than his old team mates? Perhaps we are playing at a much higher pace? Why do you think Jameer is averaging a career high number of assists per game, and don't give me the JV coaching style for a reason. Personal theory 1. Hedo Turkoglu isn't playing point whatever this year. He took the ball out of Jameer's hands to often. That may be one of the reasons he's having a good year. Personal theory 2. Vuc and Nicholson shoot better than Howard and whomever. That's the best i can do of the top of my head. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Hi-Top 791 Report post Posted March 6, 2013 Personal theory 1. Hedo Turkoglu isn't playing point whatever this year. He took the ball out of Jameer's hands to often. That may be one of the reasons he's having a good year. Personal theory 2. Vuc and Nicholson shoot better than Howard and whomever. That's the best i can do of the top of my head. I would suggest you not do too many things "off the top of your head". Jameer's usage rate from last year to this year is to small to suggest it has any influence 21.4 to 22.3, meaning that per 40 minutes, Jameer is averaging one more possession this year than next. Turk certainly (and thankfully since Hedo would have been more likely to turn the ball over judging by his assist to turnover ration in comparison to Jameer last season) couldn't have taken anything away from Jameer. Vuc and Nicholson have a TS% of 53.5 and 56.7 respectively as our starting C and PF, last season, Dwight and Anderson (same position) came in at 56.5 and 58.9 TS%. Not only were Vuc and Nicholson's combined TS%'s worse overall, but combined they are shooting 17.4 shots per game this season while Dwight and Anderson took 25.8 per game last season. Fewer shots and a lower TS% are both contrary to your theory. Care to take another stab at it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Disillusion 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2013 Why the heck are we arguing about this. Most of us are happy that we finally have 2 point guards now. I know some will say that Meer is not a pg but I disagree. No hes not the best and has his draw backs but he is a good leader and teammate. Personally, I have always thought Meer's passing skills where under rated. He shoots with confidence and is clutch at times. Meaning he likes to be the guy to take the shot. 2nd, the system we ran limited the potential number of assists he could get. I remember so many hockey assists with the 1 in 4 out we had. A lot of the time some one would make a nice play but would get nothing on the stat sheet. This happened to every one on the team at the time not just Meer. Also, the game seemed much slower to me if I'm recalling correctly. The ball would sit in Howard's hands for a while then he would pass out to re-post. The shot clock was always winding down and we played through Howard and unless is was an ally-hoop to Howard chances where that you wouldn't get an assist through Howard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OldKenimport 0 Report post Posted March 6, 2013 I would suggest you not do too many things "off the top of your head". Jameer's usage rate from last year to this year is to small to suggest it has any influence 21.4 to 22.3, meaning that per 40 minutes, Jameer is averaging one more possession this year than next. Turk certainly (and thankfully since Hedo would have been more likely to turn the ball over judging by his assist to turnover ration in comparison to Jameer last season) couldn't have taken anything away from Jameer. Vuc and Nicholson have a TS% of 53.5 and 56.7 respectively as our starting C and PF, last season, Dwight and Anderson (same position) came in at 56.5 and 58.9 TS%. Not only were Vuc and Nicholson's combined TS%'s worse overall, but combined they are shooting 17.4 shots per game this season while Dwight and Anderson took 25.8 per game last season. Fewer shots and a lower TS% are both contrary to your theory. Care to take another stab at it? Last stab I was trying to say that Turk was passing to Howard and Anderson as much as Jameer. This would have slowed Jameer's total numbers and percentage. With your logic Jameer would be having a worst year than last year because of less attempts for and assist. Your right, Jameer get better every year. He is a top five point guard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
