gobucsmagic 13 Report post Posted May 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, Justin Jaudon said: It's not even really an argument at this point. If your goal is to win championships, tanking as hard as you can for multiple seasons doesn't work. The last team to tank their way to a championship was San Antonio. And they tanked for one season. The last team to win a championship through a philosophy of long-term tanking was... nope, never happened. Maybe Philly will get it done some day soon. If they do, they will be the only NBA team to have the process actually work, despite at least ten teams trying it every year for the last two decades. OKC got three hall of fame MVP players in three consecutive drafts and didn't get it done. There just isn't a good argument to be made for a long-term tanking strategy if you want a championship. At least, not if you have any understanding of NBA history. We didn’t tank as hard as we could any season, much less multiple seasons, so I’m not understanding the point of your post. I mean we sucked balls but we never intentionally lost Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTMagicUK 1,480 Report post Posted May 16, 2021 11 minutes ago, Justin Jaudon said: It's not even really an argument at this point. If your goal is to win championships, tanking as hard as you can for multiple seasons doesn't work. The last team to tank their way to a championship was San Antonio. And they tanked for one season. The last team to win a championship through a philosophy of long-term tanking was... nope, never happened. Maybe Philly will get it done some day soon. If they do, they will be the only NBA team to have the process actually work, despite at least ten teams trying it every year for the last two decades. OKC got three hall of fame MVP players in three consecutive drafts and didn't get it done. There just isn't a good argument to be made for a long-term tanking strategy if you want a championship. At least, not if you have any understanding of NBA history. This incorrectly assumes that the reason OKC didn't win a championship was because of tanking and not because they traded James Harden for pennies on the dollar to avoid the luxury tax, kept Scott Brooks as coach for far too long and lost a game 7 to the winningest regular season team of all time. Winning a championship is very hard. Only 1 team wins a championship every year so every year 29 teams had a strategy that didn't win a championship. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justin Jaudon 221 Report post Posted May 16, 2021 Just now, gobucsmagic said: We didn’t tank as hard as we could any season, much less multiple seasons, so I’m not understanding the point of your post. I mean we sucked balls but we never intentionally lost Are you new? We had three straight seasons of 25 wins or less. If you want worse tanking than that, I don't know what to say. Short of just forfeiting games, that's as tanking as it gets. This is beside the point, anyway. The point of my post was to remind people that arguing for tanking harder is foolish, because it doesn't work. You're welcome to show me how I'm wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justin Jaudon 221 Report post Posted May 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, CTMagicUK said: This incorrectly assumes that the reason OKC didn't win a championship was because of tanking and not because they traded James Harden for pennies on the dollar to avoid the luxury tax, kept Scott Brooks as coach for far too long and lost a game 7 to the winningest regular season team of all time. Winning a championship is very hard. Only 1 team wins a championship every year so every year 29 teams had a strategy that didn't win a championship. Did they win a championship? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gobucsmagic 13 Report post Posted May 16, 2021 32 minutes ago, hootie249 said: Yeah we never really tanked. The whole Scott Skiles hire changed everything. We absolutely tried to win that year. The Tobias trade was all about fixing the point guard situation and winning. Once Skiles left due to the infighting with Hennigan, it's obvious Martins told our gm he wanted to win, not tank. And the rest is history. I'm still convinced Henny screwed up the Oladipo trade on purpose, you'll never convince me otherwise. We semi-tanked the last month of 2016-2017. Not sure if i have the years correct but the season before Isaac's draft. So in short we tanked maybe 2 years total. The rest we were just real bad to mediocre. Can't win without talent. Overall, the culture has been bad as well. I think this was a good time for a change. I’d argue you can’t really change the culture into a winning culture until you begin winning. And you can’t win without talent. If we have a successful season next year, which would probably be a .500 season, it will be because we added a talented player or two in this draft, Isaac returns healthy (not to mention Markelle), and our young players keep developing, not because we have some tremendous culture shift out of nowhere Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gobucsmagic 13 Report post Posted May 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, Justin Jaudon said: Are you new? We had three straight seasons of 25 wins or less. If you want worse tanking than that, I don't know what to say. Short of just forfeiting games, that's as tanking as it gets. This is beside the point, anyway. The point of my post was to remind people that arguing for tanking harder is foolish, because it doesn't work. You're welcome to show me how I'm wrong. Because we sucked! Sucking isn’t tanking. You’re making it sound like we went out and threw games for three seasons straight in hopes of our getting our messiah through the draft, and that isn’t even close to accurate. Regardless, tanking for us means losing tonight, that’s it. The idea that will somehow cripple the culture of this franchise is ridiculous Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTMagicUK 1,480 Report post Posted May 16, 2021 Just now, Justin Jaudon said: Did they win a championship? Did I say they did? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justin Jaudon 221 Report post Posted May 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, gobucsmagic said: Because we sucked! Sucking isn’t tanking. Tanking for us means losing tonight, that’s it. The idea that will somehow cripple the culture of this franchise is ridiculous Are you suggesting the players on the team should lose on purpose? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gobucsmagic 13 Report post Posted May 16, 2021 1 minute ago, Justin Jaudon said: Are you suggesting the players on the team should lose on purpose? Tonight we need to lose. How that occurs is irrelevant. If anyone believes we shouldn’t please just explain why you’d rather have lower odds for a higher draft pick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justin Jaudon 221 Report post Posted May 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, CTMagicUK said: Did I say they did? No. No you did not. You made excuses for why they didn't. I don't care about excuses. You know what other teams have excuses? Teams that didn't tank. If I have to choose which team I'd rather have been watching, a team that tried and had to make excuses for why they didn't get it done, and one who sucked on purpose for years only to end up with the same results... I'll take a team who at least gives themselves a chance. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gobucsmagic 13 Report post Posted May 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, Justin Jaudon said: No. No you did not. You made excuses for why they didn't. I don't care about excuses. You know what other teams have excuses? Teams that didn't tank. If I have to choose which team I'd rather have been watching, a team that tried and had to make excuses for why they didn't get it done, and one who sucked on purpose for years only to end up with the same results... I'll take a team who at least gives themselves a chance. Your assertion that we lost on purpose for multiple seasons is stupid. There, I said it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justin Jaudon 221 Report post Posted May 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, gobucsmagic said: Tonight we need to lose. How that occurs is irrelevant. If anyone believes we shouldn’t please just explain why you’d rather have lower odds for a higher draft pick If the players lose on purpose they are idiots. It's irrelevant what I want. I would prefer we lose tonight. I would prefer the players do their best to win. GMs can tank. Coaches and players can't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
