2017 Official Offseason Thread

[Justin Jaudon 221]

No the agenda changed. We went from acquiring assets for future sustainable growth, developing young potential, to a hurray up win now dump assets for veterans mindset.

 

Tobias for Jennings and IIyasova was a Skiles move. More was to come if Skiles was still here. He'd probably would want us to trade EP for Hinrich and AG for Deng.

 

Yeah, we've been through this before. Trading Tobias for vets was the right move, because, again, it was not just a win-now move. It allowed us to develop Aaron as a starting PF, which was difficult before because Harris/Gordon didn't give us enough shooting, and also it allowed us to keep cap flexibility without having to continue to overpay Harris. For the 100th time, the only thing wrong with that trade was not getting a pick, which I find hard to blame on Skiles.

 

More was to come if Skiles was still here? You mean like trading our best young player for Serge Ibaka, forcing our best young asset to move positions, then signing a 30-year-old former player of Hennigan's to take up minutes at Gordon's new position with his awesome veteran presence?

 

The problem with blaming things on Skiles is it misinterprets the information and mis-remembers where the team was headed before THIS season. Before Skiles, we'd collected assets for 3 years. That's what we were supposed to do. We brought in Skiles to change the culture and begin to assess what those assets could actually be. Skiles was doing a good job of that, really. He solidified Dipo's defense, started really developing Gordon as a + PF, and was doing a good job bringing along Mario. We also saw that Vuc could not work defensively as a starting C, and that Payton could not play within a system. We saw more of Fournier, figured out exactly what he could be.

 

The idea should have been that you now turn those assets into winning, without killing our future. We had guys we wanted to build around (mostly, Dipo and Gordon). The asset collection phase was over, and it was now Hennigan's job to build a team around the guys we could build around. He failed miserably at that. Instead of building around Dipo and Gordon, Hennigan ended up trading Dipo and hamstringing Gordon's development; he built around the worst two starters from last year, Payton and Fournier.

 

The rebuild did start to go off the rails during Skiles' time here, but it wasn't Skiles' hiring that started it. It was the realization that asset collection was all Hennigan could do. So it looks like everything was fine before, because everything really was. Hennigan did a solid job bringing in assets. He just couldn't do anything with them.

[Magicman28 295]

Yeah, we've been through this before. Trading Tobias for vets was the right move, because, again, it was not just a win-now move. It allowed us to develop Aaron as a starting PF, which was difficult before because Harris/Gordon didn't give us enough shooting, and also it allowed us to keep cap flexibility without having to continue to overpay Harris. For the 100th time, the only thing wrong with that trade was not getting a pick, which I find hard to blame on Skiles.

 

More was to come if Skiles was still here? You mean like trading our best young player for Serge Ibaka, forcing our best young asset to move positions, then signing a 30-year-old former player of Hennigan's to take up minutes at Gordon's new position with his awesome veteran presence?

 

The problem with blaming things on Skiles is it misinterprets the information and mis-remembers where the team was headed before THIS season. Before Skiles, we'd collected assets for 3 years. That's what we were supposed to do. We brought in Skiles to change the culture and begin to assess what those assets could actually be. Skiles was doing a good job of that, really. He solidified Dipo's defense, started really developing Gordon as a + PF, and was doing a good job bringing along Mario. We also saw that Vuc could not work defensively as a starting C, and that Payton could not play within a system. We saw more of Fournier, figured out exactly what he could be.

 

The idea should have been that you now turn those assets into winning, without killing our future. We had guys we wanted to build around (mostly, Dipo and Gordon). The asset collection phase was over, and it was now Hennigan's job to build a team around the guys we could build around. He failed miserably at that. Instead of building around Dipo and Gordon, Hennigan ended up trading Dipo and hamstringing Gordon's development; he built around the worst two starters from last year, Payton and Fournier.

 

The rebuild did start to go off the rails during Skiles' time here, but it wasn't Skiles' hiring that started it. It was the realization that asset collection was all Hennigan could do. So it looks like everything was fine before, because everything really was. Hennigan did a solid job bringing in assets. He just couldn't do anything with them.

 

Nah. You could've found a way to use Tobias at the 3 and AG at the 4. Hell you could've tried Mario who was shooting decently at the time or Fournier which he did at times anyways. Skiles had no patience. Many here including myself were frustrated with his lineups.

 

 

Serge trade was a good trade. Just bad timing and I'm pretty confident it was Martins/Devos who wanted such moves to be done. Vogel wanted a twin tower setup which didn't work out and Rob then got TRoss who's probably on par if not better for what we need than Dipo and a got a pick back in a better draft.

 

You never stop collecting assets until you draft "the player" or you finally of capable of pulling off a trade for one where you still have a formable team. Our assets weren't quite yet developed, thank you Scott Skiles, thus their value wasn't capable to land THE player without handing over every asset in return and becoming the Kings.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I don't think the decision to trade tobias or oladipo was wrong. but the return we got on harris was poor.

[Magicman28 295]

I don't think the decision to trade tobias or oladipo was wrong. but the return we got on harris was poor.

 

I think knowing what we know now, trading Harris under Skiles was wrong. Trading Dipo before Vogel had some games under his belt with him was wrong.

 

Actually trading them was fine just should've been done under Vogel and near the deadline.

[Justin Jaudon 221]

I'm just so tired of the excuses. Yeah, sure, trading Dipo and a pick we could have used on, say, Taurean Prince or Malik Beasley, for example, for what turned out to be Terrence Ross and a late first was great. Never mind that in this Dipo's worst year of his career he was still better by basically every metric than Terrence Ross. Because Terrence Ross is a better outside shooter, right? (by 0.2% this year, and actually worse for Orlando than Dipo was last year, yay!). And we'll get a great player with that 25th pick right, totally better than we could've gotten with 11 last year? We could get someone great, like Johnathan Motley or Tyler Lydon. Those guys are sure to be way better than anyone we could have gotten at 11 last year, like Hernangomez or Zizic.

 

Sure, Skiles could have built an offense around Payton/Dipo/Harris/Gordon/Vucevic. Who needs shooting when you have all that young-asset-ness? I mean, he did better than Vogel this year, and Vogel is basically Jesus; so, really, if he hadn't been so impatient, it totally could've worked. If only we'd stayed the course, except when Hennigan decided not to stay the course (unless that wasn't actually his idea, then it was bad again, but Martins' fault, or Skiles').

 

I mean, yeah, now that I think of it, no one could have done better with this team than Rob did. It was just a streak of terrible luck. If it hadn't been for Hennigan, surely the team would have been sucked into a black hole, or mauled by wolves. That brave soldier... he did all he could. Honesty, instead of being fired, he should have been GM of the year.

[Magicman28 295]

I'm just so tired of the excuses. Yeah, sure, trading Dipo and a pick we could have used on, say, Taurean Prince or Malik Beasley, for example, for what turned out to be Terrence Ross and a late first was great. Never mind that in this Dipo's worst year of his career he was still better by basically every metric than Terrence Ross. Because Terrence Ross is a better outside shooter, right? (by 0.2% this year, and actually worse for Orlando than Dipo was last year, yay!). And we'll get a great player with that 25th pick right, totally better than we could've gotten with 11 last year? We could get someone great, like Johnathan Motley or Tyler Lydon. Those guys are sure to be way better than anyone we could have gotten at 11 last year, like Hernangomez or Zizic.

 

Sure, Skiles could have built an offense around Payton/Dipo/Harris/Gordon/Vucevic. Who needs shooting when you have all that young-asset-ness? I mean, he did better than Vogel this year, and Vogel is basically Jesus; so, really, if he hadn't been so impatient, it totally could've worked. If only we'd stayed the course, except when Hennigan decided not to stay the course (unless that wasn't actually his idea, then it was bad again, but Martins' fault, or Skiles').

 

I mean, yeah, now that I think of it, no one could have done better with this team than Rob did. It was just a streak of terrible luck. If it hadn't been for Hennigan, surely the team would have been sucked into a black hole, or mauled by wolves. That brave soldier... he did all he could. Honesty, instead of being fired, he should have been GM of the year.

 

Dipo at 21 million per year or TRoss at 10 million a year?

 

You could've ran with Payton/Dipo/Mario/Gordon/Vuch with Harris off the bench. Could've done Payton/Fournier/Tobias/Gordon/Dedmon or Vuch. Could've done a lot of different things if one had patience.

 

The rest of your post is horse**** and reeks if passive aggressiveness.

 

Edit if you take a look you'll see that some of our best +\-'s lineups offensively is where AG is at the 4. One had EP/Dipo/Mario/AG/Vuch. Another even had Dipo/Mario/Harris/AG/Vuch.

[magicblue 315]

Dipo at 21 million per year or TRoss at 10 million a year?

 

The rest of your post is horse**** and reeks of passive aggressiveness

 

Thanks, you beat me to it. Be patient. You guys do understand that 90% of our collective success up until now has been based on pure luck right?

[Justin Jaudon 221]

Dipo at 21 million per year or TRoss at 10 million a year?

 

You could've ran with Payton/Dipo/Mario/Gordon/Vuch with Harris off the bench. Could've done Payton/Fournier/Tobias/Gordon/Dedmon or Vuch. Could've done a lot of different things if one had patience.

 

The rest of your post is horse**** and reeks if passive aggressiveness.

 

Edit if you take a look you'll see that some of our best +\-'s lineups offensively is where AG is at the 4. One had EP/Dipo/Mario/AG/Vuch. Another even had Dipo/Mario/Harris/AG/Vuch.

 

Are we complaining about Dipo's contract while advocating keeping Tobias?

 

Ross' contract is great. And so is Vuc's contract. Neither of those guys are good starters. Both of those guys are best used as 6th or 7th men, which is why they make 6th or 7th men money. Dipo makes starter money, because he's a starter caliber player (or he was in Orlando, at least). There's a big difference in contracts for 6th man and 3rd man. This is reasonable, because that is how the market works in the NBA.

 

So yes, I'll take Dipo at $21 mil, because then we have at least one (maybe two) starter caliber player. Right now we might have one guy who might turn out to be a good starter on a good team (Gordon), if we stop dicking him around. Maybe instead of paying high quality backup-level guys like Fournier and Biyombo starter money, we should have just kept the good starters we had.

 

And I'm sorry if my sarcasm offended anyone. I try not to do it much on here, but occasionally it comes out.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Are we complaining about Dipo's contract while advocating keeping Tobias?

 

 

 

No

[Magicman28 295]

Are we complaining about Dipo's contract while advocating keeping Tobias?

 

Ross' contract is great. And so is Vuc's contract. Neither of those guys are good starters. Both of those guys are best used as 6th or 7th men, which is why they make 6th or 7th men money. Dipo makes starter money, because he's a starter caliber player (or he was in Orlando, at least). There's a big difference in contracts for 6th man and 3rd man. This is reasonable, because that is how the market works in the NBA.

 

So yes, I'll take Dipo at $21 mil, because then we have at least one (maybe two) starter caliber player. Right now we might have one guy who might turn out to be a good starter on a good team (Gordon), if we stop dicking him around. Maybe instead of paying high quality backup-level guys like Fournier and Biyombo starter money, we should have just kept the good starters we had.

 

And I'm sorry if my sarcasm offended anyone. I try not to do it much on here, but occasionally it comes out.

 

 

No. I would not of given Dipo that contract and I would've not of traded Harris for Jennings and IIyasova.

 

I'm not saying I would've kept Harris for the duration of his contract. I just don't like the deal then and still don't now and I choose to not ignore some key facts which is during our best run he was a part of it and most importantly is the return we got were two guys Skiles coached before. Not a coincidence.

 

Not offended btw. Just not good material to respond to.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Espn just dropped their entire basketball staff pretty much

[Franchero MVP 391]

Espn just dropped their entire basketball staff pretty much

 

Yeah that was actually kind of ridiculous. Is it not popular enough?