Magic @ Dallas

[Murphy13 185]

Good point but how much more progress would we have made this year with him and Sabonis?

 

IRight now, we could be on pace to get a reallly good player in the draft (possibly one better than Dipo)or we have Dipo and a treadmill team. I'm not a big fan of losing but I like that we have a direction instead of purgatory.

 

Don't know for sure.

 

Agree with your last point, I am glad we have direction too because its been evident for months now that we were not what we hoped we'd be this year.

[Magicman28 295]

That was FOUR years ago man, you're just proving my point! I'm not exactly sure what your comment above means though...maybe I'm too tired to properly comprehend what you're saying.

 

 

 

 

It's not one play. It's a whole game.

 

 

Get some sleep man.

[HardCutting Franz 51]

How do you define elite? His defensive rating is tied for 295th in the league right now. His defensive box plus minus is tied for 176th. His defensive win shares is tied for 131st. Before you or someone else try to pull some weak straw man line, I don't think he's that low down the list, but an elite defender won't be anywhere near this bad-even on a terrible team. His three point shooting is stagnant (at a near-putrid level) at best as well. He is completely overrated by our fanbase. He should be on the table in any trade negotiation. It would be stupid to not sell high (as possible) on him.

Those stats don't mean **** while he is guarding the leagues best players (remember he guards all positions except Cs) , I saw the same **** happen to Bruce Bowen and Shawn Marion.All I'm saying is you can't trade him unless its for a proven allstar or top 3 pick.

[Murphy13 185]

 

 

It's not one play. It's a whole game.

 

 

Get some sleep man.

 

First of all, I'm not tired. I was being nice. Your grammar was so bad it actually didn't have a point in that sentence. Second, so Serge had a career game of 31 points four years ago and somehow that's supposed to provide adequate foundation to your (shaky) position?

[HardCutting Franz 51]

Henny's mistakes were , imo ,drafting only based on athletic ability not bball skill , and singing one-dimensional players that don't make their teammates better.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

How do you define elite? His defensive rating is tied for 295th in the league right now. His defensive box plus minus is tied for 176th. His defensive win shares is tied for 131st. Before you or someone else try to pull some weak straw man line, I don't think he's that low down the list, but an elite defender won't be anywhere near this bad-even on a terrible team. His three point shooting is stagnant (at a near-putrid level) at best as well. He is completely overrated by our fanbase. He should be on the table in any trade negotiation. It would be stupid to not sell high (as possible) on him.

 

You're not using great stats. Kawhi Leonard is 150th in defensive rpm and defensive rating relates to team stats.

 

What we do have is player tracking. Opponents are only shooting 40.8% against him (31.9% from 3) which is comparable to Giannis, davis, Draymond, Durant,etc.

 

This is especially impressive considering we've switched him onto the other teams best player 1-4.

[Magicman28 295]

First of all, I'm not tired. I was being nice. Your grammar was so bad it actually didn't have a point in that sentence. Second, so Serge had a career game of 31 points four years ago and somehow that's supposed to provide adequate foundation to your (shaky) position?

 

 

I forgot a comma my fault.

 

That 31 point game was this year. Your eyes must be heavy.

[Murphy13 185]

Those stats don't mean **** while he is guarding the leagues best players (remember he guards all positions except Cs) , I saw the same **** happen to Bruce Bowen and Shawn Marion.All I'm saying is you can't trade him unless its for a proven allstar or top 3 pick.

 

I called the weak argument coming, lo and behold here it is! Listen, I don't hate AG. He is far from elite at anything basketball related though and frankly needs to learn how to play better basketball before anyone intelligent would give up a top 3 pick or a proven (aside from aged and saddled w/baggage) all star for him. By the way, Bowen and Marion were both ACTUAL elite defenders, and they never had a DRATING anywhere near Gordon's. In fact, their worst years were more akin to Gordon's best year.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I called the weak argument coming, lo and behold here it is! Listen, I don't hate AG. He is far from elite at anything basketball related though and frankly needs to learn how to play better basketball before anyone intelligent would give up a top 3 pick or a proven (aside from aged and saddled w/baggage) all star for him. By the way, Bowen and Marion were both ACTUAL elite defenders, and they never had a DRATING anywhere near Gordon's. In fact, their worst years were more akin to Gordon's best year.

 

Defensive rating is a team stat. If one hypothetical player shuts down his opponent and he goes 0/5 but the rest of the team plays crappy defense and allows 22 points on the other 15 possessions that still gives hypothetical player 1 a defensive rating of 110

[Franchero MVP 391]

Fire this moron of a GM -- I do not trust him to rebuild us once again

[Murphy13 185]

You're not using great stats. Kawhi Leonard is 150th in defensive rpm and defensive rating relates to team stats.

 

What we do have is player tracking. Opponents are only shooting 40.8% against him (31.9% from 3) which is comparable to Giannis, davis, Draymond, Durant,etc.

 

This is especially impressive considering we've switched him onto the other teams best player 1-4.

 

As I already said, I don't believe he's in that particular realm as depicted by the advanced stats. That's exactly why I made a long detailed diatribe a couple years ago lamenting the fallibility of such blind application of these stats. It wasn't popular then. This is also why I found the conversation a couple days ago humorous when someone was trying to tell me about advanced stats and tell me I 'obviously' lacked experience with them. If only he knew...

 

That being said, seeing as how those specific stats were seemingly your fav not long ago when discussing AG and other players it would seem disingenuous now to discount them when they aren't convenient. We both have been around long enough to know that you can find any stat to make whatever point you're trying to make. You found one. There are far more that suggest otherwise, but there are no winners in this argument because I want AG to be the best defender in the league...it's the only way he will live up to his pick and the only way we will climb out of this hole we are in currently.

[Murphy13 185]

Defensive rating is a team stat. If one hypothetical player shuts down his opponent and he goes 0/5 but the rest of the team plays crappy defense and allows 22 points on the other 15 possessions that still gives hypothetical player 1 a defensive rating of 110

 

I feel like this is becoming a circular conversation in different replies. Truly elite defensive players shine through statistically across the mean, regardless of team dynamic. Drating (and Orating) is far from my favorite stat, but it can be seen as the canvas that the picture is being painted on. It builds an idea, but it doesn't define it.