JJZFL 623 Report post Posted November 12, 2016 Benching Mario to me was an mistake. He was starting to show some progress. Why does the kid have such an short leash? Also, we're clearly better with an small lineup so why does Vogel not see that's where we need to go? He keeps forcing this big lineup that loses the lead as soon as it gets on the court. DJ/Fournier/Mario/AG/Biz Hezonja was 4-13 against Chicago, 1-6 from three point range, with a +/- of -27, worst on the team. His stats against Minnesota were a little better, although he still went 1-4 from 3 point range, but the reason the stats were better is that he was playing during garbage time (the entire second half). During the first half, he played about 6 1/2 minutes and scored 2 points, no rebounds, no assists, was basically a non factor. I'm not sure what progress you're referring to. He had one good quarter against Washington and has looked pretty bad otherwise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magicman28 295 Report post Posted November 12, 2016 Hezonja was 4-13 against Chicago, 1-6 from three point range, with a +/- of -27, worst on the team. His stats against Minnesota were a little better, although he still went 1-4 from 3 point range, but the reason the stats were better is that he was playing during garbage time (the entire second half). During the first half, he played about 6 1/2 minutes and scored 2 points, no rebounds, no assists, was basically a non factor. I'm not sure what progress you're referring to. He had one good quarter against Washington and has looked pretty bad otherwise. And see maybe the organization has the same tunnel vision you have with Mario. Meh, he's not shooting well, don't play him. How's that development? Did you know before the season started the coaching staff changed his shooting technique? You think that might have to do with the shooting slump? He wasn't this bad last year. Have you not notice the improvements he's made defensively? The grass is greener only if you water it. We benched AG for Jeff Green. How did that do? They have no idea what to do and they try everything besides fully committing to our youth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fan for too long 2 534 Report post Posted November 12, 2016 And see maybe the organization has the same tunnel vision you have with Mario. Meh, he's not shooting well, don't play him. How's that development? Did you know before the season started the coaching staff changed his shooting technique? You think that might have to do with the shooting slump? He wasn't this bad last year. Have you not notice the improvements he's made defensively? The grass is greener only if you water it. We benched AG for Jeff Green. How did that do? They have no idea what to do and they try everything besides fully committing to our youth. This last line is what is infuriating. Quit going to your vets to win when our vets are players that have bounced around the league like ping pong balls. They are not the solution. Play the dam young guys and f ing COACH them that is how they are going to develop. Otherwise play the crappy vets all the time and maybe queak into the playoffs and get swept. Woohoo. Great plan vogel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magicman28 295 Report post Posted November 12, 2016 This last line is what is infuriating. Quit going to your vets to win when our vets are players that have bounced around the league like ping pong balls. They are not the solution. Play the dam young guys and f ing COACH them that is how they are going to develop. Otherwise play the crappy vets all the time and maybe queak into the playoffs and get swept. Woohoo. Great plan vogel. To add, quit talking about the damn playoffs before the season starts when you know damn well you gotta develop guys. If we're not landing AD in some sort of trade, your next best option is to develop the high draft picks we semi tanked for. The same guys who had an coach last year that was reluctant to develop. No one has really wanted to commit to them. As terrible as JV was, at least he committed to Dipo and Payton. Stop the half assing and commit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ibn Battuta 127 Report post Posted November 12, 2016 And see maybe the organization has the same tunnel vision you have with Mario. Meh, he's not shooting well, don't play him. How's that development? Did you know before the season started the coaching staff changed his shooting technique? You think that might have to do with the shooting slump? He wasn't this bad last year. Have you not notice the improvements he's made defensively? What defensive improvements. From absolutely awful to...just awful? Hezonja got snubbed by a 30 yr old vet nobody. If he is as good as you all think he is, he should be coming out next game on fire. If he has any pride he will prove to the coaches what a mistake that was. What will be the excuse then if he doesn't? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ibn Battuta 127 Report post Posted November 12, 2016 Play the dam young guys and f ing COACH them that is how they are going to develop. Realistically what do you think Vogel can do? If the player missed the shot, what can Vogel do? If the player misses his defensive assignment, what can Vogel do? If the player is not playing with confidence, what can Vogel do? He can "coach" them by telling players not to do these thing and/or show them the right technique or possible solution. But if the player still doesn't get it. What can Vogel do? Is it not possible that Vogel has been given a bad roster with not a lot of good players, and is working with what he has? Could he be playing the vets because, sadly, they are just slightly better than the alternative? I think Vogel is the best coach since SVG. He is making adjustments and tinkering with lineups. Sounds like he is doing his job in terms of analyzing what works and what doesn't based on his data. The players just aren't there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magicman28 295 Report post Posted November 12, 2016 What defensive improvements. From absolutely awful to...just awful? Hezonja got snubbed by a 30 yr old vet nobody. If he is as good as you all think he is, he should be coming out next game on fire. If he has any pride he will prove to the coaches what a mistake that was. What will be the excuse then if he doesn't? I don't think he's good as anything because we get these freaking coaches who wanna win now so they trade for Ibaka who's our worse defender and absolutely useless outside of shooting wide open 3's and long 2's and keep playing these guys instead of fully committing to the youth. Did you see that 30 year old playing defense? It was worse than watching Ibaka play defense. It was like watching John Amaechi defensively. I suggest you look what the advance stats say about Mario's defense this year. It's one of the better ones on the team. Better than Jeff Green who again, got the nod to start and provided absolutely nothing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magicman28 295 Report post Posted November 12, 2016 Realistically what do you think Vogel can do? If the player missed the shot, what can Vogel do? If the player misses his defensive assignment, what can Vogel do? If the player is not playing with confidence, what can Vogel do? He can "coach" them by telling players not to do these thing and/or show them the right technique or possible solution. But if the player still doesn't get it. What can Vogel do? Is it not possible that Vogel has been given a bad roster with not a lot of good players, and is working with what he has? He was given an roster that never had one damn full season of development. Skiles charades and win now mentality dampened that and Vogel is doing the same crap now. I'd be alright with loses. I'd be even ok with not making the playoffs if I saw some commitment to consistency to our youth but when ibaka's pathetic ass is being treated the way we should be treating our youth despite playing worse at 27 or 37 or whatever age he is, It's asinine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ibn Battuta 127 Report post Posted November 12, 2016 I don't think he's good as anything because we get these freaking coaches who wanna win now so they trade for Ibaka who's our worse defender and absolutely useless outside of shooting wide open 3's and long 2's and keep playing these guys instead of fully committing to the youth. Did you see that 30 year old playing defense? It was worse than watching Ibaka play defense. He'll, it was like watching John Amaechi defensively. I suggest you look what the advance stats say about Mario's defense this year. It's one of the better ones on the team. Better than Jeff Green who again, got the nod to start and provided absolutely nothing. You're dodging the question a bit. Hezonja WILL get an opportunity next game to prove himself. As a coach Vogel is pushing the right button. If he still plays subpar, what will the excuse be? It's not "Mario is being affected by Skiles" (Skiles is long gone) or "his shooting stroke is different" (nobody forced him to change it or purposefully sabotaged it). When do we just say...Hezonja ain't getting it? Rudez from a +/- perspective was a +9. From what I saw he knew where to be defensively. It's his limitation that he is slow footed (Vogel even said so post game) but he also praised him for playing within the team concept. I'm not sure I can intelligently talk about Hezonja's defense. What conclusions can you draw from them? He's not a starter so he's not guarding an opposing starter, nor is he guarding the best opposing offensive player. He's a bench player. What player is he locking down defensively? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ibn Battuta 127 Report post Posted November 12, 2016 He was given an roster that never had one damn full season of development. Skiles charades and win now mentality dampened that and Vogel is doing the same crap now. I'd be alright with loses. I'd be even ok with not making the playoffs if I saw some commitment to consistency to our youth but when ibaka's pathetic ass is being treated the way we should be treating our youth despite playing worse at 27 or 37 or whatever age he is, It's asinine. Skiles is not on the team anymore. Is he magically popping in the locker room and making faces at Hezonja or other players? Are you trying to say that our players have somehow been so psychologically compromised from last season that it has carried over to this season? I'm no fan of Skiles but this is just too silly. Skiles is long gone! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magicman28 295 Report post Posted November 12, 2016 And how many games should we give Mario? 5? 10? If that 21 year old doesn't show significant improvement play Rudez more, There in lies the problem. How about we just give him one full season for once? Or maybe two? How about we stop giving him an hand full of games to prove his worth. How about we stop benching high draft picks for vets who are more of an detrimental to the team. Go look at the defensive rating for Mario compared to last year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ibn Battuta 127 Report post Posted November 12, 2016 I wish Vogel, for one game, would go against all logic and start Hezonja. I think it would lay to rest a lot of these excuses. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
