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2017 NBA Draft Thread

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Payton4thewin    1,063

I'm saying his defense is one of the least of this teams worries. He gets lost at times like every other player. He also has better stats overall than most players on this team. Consistent coaches and the direction this coach takes this team should help this year. Hopefully, but to throw Payton under the bus and say he is the major problem is just wrong.

 

he can't get through a screen when the number one thing teams do now is screen.

 

maybe switching everything helps him.

 

Payton isn't THE major problem. He's A major problem. and we're slowly entering a timeframe where we need to make a choice on him. You give me one reasonable move to make this offseason and it's getting a player that can move augustin out of the rotation. We'll still be fine with Payton starting. But at the same time throwing another year of payton out there where he screws up angles on offense really makes things more difficult for everyone around him. And what do we pay him next year?

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Magicman28    134

I'm saying his defense is one of the least of this teams worries. He gets lost at times like every other player. He also has better stats overall than most players on this team. Consistent coaches and the direction this coach takes this team should help this year. Hopefully, but to throw Payton under the bus and say he is the major problem is just wrong.

 

 

You couldn't be further from the truth. The league is screen heavy and EP struggles mightily with it. It's an HUGE problem.

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he can't get through a screen when the number one thing teams do now is screen.

 

maybe switching everything helps him.

 

Payton isn't THE major problem. He's A major problem. and we're slowly entering a timeframe where we need to make a choice on him. You give me one reasonable move to make this offseason and it's getting a player that can move augustin out of the rotation. We'll still be fine with Payton starting. But at the same time throwing another year of payton out there where he screws up angles on offense really makes things more difficult for everyone around him. And what do we pay him next year?

Why are you so quick to point out Gordon's improvement after all star break but dismiss Payton's?

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You couldn't be further from the truth. The league is screen heavy and EP struggles mightily with it. It's an HUGE problem.

It wouldn't be such a problem if Vuc wasn't the other defender on the screen.

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Ted Stickle    31

Why are you so quick to point out Gordon's improvement after all star break but dismiss Payton's?

Because a PF struggling to shoot 3s isnt as bad as a PG struggling to shoot 3s?

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Payton4thewin    1,063

Why are you so quick to point out Gordon's improvement after all star break but dismiss Payton's?

 

1. because there's no debates on if a guy like Gordon can succeed in the nba. With payton there's questions about his actual skillset in general and what that ceiling is if he doesn't improve. If Payton can't shoot he can't play off ball. If payton can't play off ball he needs to be an elite passer and consistently win his matchup.

 

2. we're in an era where having an all star caliber point guard is almost a necessity. 10 of the 16 playoff teams and 7 of the top 9 teams in the nba had elite level point guards. That's not the same deal with power forward. Jameer was a great point guard for us 7-10 years ago. Jameer would be a sub-optimal choice for a starting point guard today.

 

Its cool when he drops 13/13/10 against sacramento. but Collison goes for 19 and 13 and we lose. He drops 25 and 9, wall drops 52. he drops 23, 9, and 7, Westbrook drops 41, 16, and 12. He killed Chicago against Jerian Grant. he killed Derrick Rose. He killed Cory Joseph. He killed Schroder. He killed Jeremy lin (once, lin killed him the other). He outplayed ish smith. He killed Russell. He outplayed Brogdon.

 

if he can never outplay the good point guards and there's 13 or so good point guards what are we doing? It doesn't have to be every time. He should lose more than he wins in those matchups. but Curry is massively better than mike conley, but Conley still wins that matchup every couple times.

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1. because there's no debates on if a guy like Gordon can succeed in the nba. With payton there's questions about his actual skillset in general and what that ceiling is if he doesn't improve. If Payton can't shoot he can't play off ball. If payton can't play off ball he needs to be an elite passer and consistently win his matchup.

 

2. we're in an era where having an all star caliber point guard is almost a necessity. 10 of the 16 playoff teams and 7 of the top 9 teams in the nba had elite level point guards. That's not the same deal with power forward. Jameer was a great point guard for us 7-10 years ago. Jameer would be a sub-optimal choice for a starting point guard today.

 

Its cool when he drops 13/13/10 against sacramento. but Collison goes for 19 and 13 and we lose. He drops 25 and 9, wall drops 52. he drops 23, 9, and 7, Westbrook drops 41, 16, and 12. He killed Chicago against Jerian Grant. he killed Derrick Rose. He killed Cory Joseph. He killed Schroder. He killed Jeremy lin (once, lin killed him the other). He outplayed ish smith. He killed Russell. He outplayed Brogdon.

 

if he can never outplay the good point guards and there's 13 or so good point guards what are we doing? It doesn't have to be every time. He should lose more than he wins in those matchups. but Curry is massively better than mike conley, but Conley still wins that matchup every couple times.

I agree with this assessment of Payton. I believe he has improved every season as he did in college even though he has had to deal with 3 coaches in 3 years. Stability should help. He has to improve his shooting and that is paramount to his winning matchups. Also the help defense has got to improve. All players need help guarding wall and Westbrook type guys. I have faith in him albeit maybe blind but I see it in his demeanor. He is a competitor.

Gordon on the other hand is not a slam dunk as you see him imo. His shooting is also vital to him becoming a good player. Both are young enough to not give up on yet.

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jmmagicfan    13

Just something to remember, our rookie Iwundu is older than both Hezonja and Gordon; so we need to keep that in perspective as far as how much more maturing their games are going to do. We still have a lot of guys on this team under 25.

 

Biyambo 8/28/92

Fournier 10/29/92

Garino 5/17/93

Georges-Hunt 3/28/94

Gordon 9/16/95

Hezonja 2/25/95

Isaac 10/03/97

Iwundu 12/20/94

Payton 2/22/94

 

and both Ross and Vucevic are only 26 (Ross 27 in Feb, Vuch 27 in Oct)

 

Even if you waive both Garino and Georges-Hunt, that still leaves us with 7 guys that are 25 and under on our roster, and you expect 5 or 6 to be in our main rotation.

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