Catalina Maria 64 Report post Posted July 27, 2016 I think if the plan was "keep vucevic" dedmon at 3 is more effective than biyombo at 17 Ok. I respect that. I look at it different. We are a better team with Vuc AND Biyombo on the same team. It's like the Magic was BETTER when we had Dwight AND Gortat playing on the same team. If Dwight and Gortat played basketball with their egos in check, the December trade might not have happened and both guys would have rings by now. To this date, both do not have a ring. Find a way to make it work out so you have starting caliber centers playing on both units of the team. Vuc is on a great contract. Enjoy it for at least a couple more years and let AG blossom. Let Mario blossom. Let Payton grow into the court general he was meant to be. It will be lob city this coming fall. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Catalina Maria 64 Report post Posted July 27, 2016 Seeing these guys make that much money puts a great perspective on the Biyombo contract. It's not bad at all. We paid for need, fit, and what the market was dictating. People who are complaining have no idea what the hell they are taking about. AGREED! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Catalina Maria 64 Report post Posted July 27, 2016 I think if the plan was "keep vucevic" dedmon at 3 is more effective than biyombo at 17 To add, you've been wanting Vuc out. Perhaps our GM sees it too. Vuc is NOT the long term solution. But no need to rush. Use Vuc as trade bait if it could yield a Cousins or Paul George. Not to get a declining Gay. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Catalina Maria 64 Report post Posted July 27, 2016 eh, I don't think getting biyombo makes ibaka less necessary, it makes vucevic less necessary and solidifies a strength of the team. Last year, in December when we went on a winning streak and had a great defense we were giving up the fourth fewest fga within 6 feet 26 attempts per game. We still let them shoot 59% from there but the low volume and pushing opponents into fga away from the basket resulted in a great defense. In January, when **** hit the fan, we gave up 30 fga at the rim and they shot 61%. we also gave up the 5th most fga from 3. in February we fixed the interior defense but the three point defense became horrible. In march we gave up 32 fga at the rim and teams shot 60%. we also gave up 40% from three In april we gave up 34 fga at the rim and teams shot 63%. We fix the rim protection as a unit, get teams to attempt fewer shots at the rim. the confidence of a biyombo or an ibaka in the lineup helps wings close out harder. teams take more shots in low percentage areas. THIS. These facts alone make me think we will be a solid 6 seed in the East. We have one of the best rim protection in the NBA with the newly acquired bigs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted July 27, 2016 To add, you've been wanting Vuc out. Perhaps our GM sees it too. Vuc is NOT the long term solution. But no need to rush. Use Vuc as trade bait if it could yield a Cousins or Paul George. Not to get a declining Gay. vucevic isn't going to be trade bait for anyone substantial. Not with Okafor and Monroe also available. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Catalina Maria 64 Report post Posted July 27, 2016 vucevic isn't going to be trade bait for anyone substantial. Not with Okafor and Monroe also available. Ok. So isn't it better to perhaps have the best 2nd unit center in the league? Some of our good games last season had Vuc coming off the bench. He was our leading scorer for a couple of those games! If Vuc and Biyombo can keep their egos in check, both of them on the same team COULD work. It gives us an identity at least. Let's try it. We ain't beating GS anytime soon. But give them something they are not prepared for. The best darn interior defense in the league. Get Vogel to train AG and Payton to be the best darn wing defense in the league. Heck, put AG, Mario, Ibaka, Vuc, Biyombo for some spurts -- very tall team -- and I think AG and Ibaka are quick enough and athletic enough to perhaps defend the 3 ball. Throw the NBA with weird lineups that could redefine the way to beat the GS and Clippers teams... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Catalina Maria 64 Report post Posted July 27, 2016 Curious: of our losses, how many of them were within 10 points? Would fixing the interior defense yield us more wins by only losing Dipo? I think so. The scoring deficit will be made up with Ibaka and an improved AG/Mario/Payton. Heck Augustin >>> Shabazz. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted July 27, 2016 Ok. So isn't it better to perhaps have the best 2nd unit center in the league? Some of our good games last season had Vuc coming off the bench. He was our leading scorer for a couple of those games! If Vuc and Biyombo can keep their egos in check, both of them on the same team COULD work. It gives us an identity at least. Let's try it. We ain't beating GS anytime soon. But give them something they are not prepared for. The best darn interior defense in the league. Get Vogel to train AG and Payton to be the best darn wing defense in the league. Heck, put AG, Mario, Ibaka, Vuc, Biyombo for some spurts -- very tall team -- and I think AG and Ibaka are quick enough and athletic enough to perhaps defend the 3 ball. Throw the NBA with weird lineups that could redefine the way to beat the GS and Clippers teams... ultimately, I think our best closing lineup might be payton (hopefully but either point guard works)- Fournier-green (hopefully hezonja)- Gordon-ibaka. This means that ibaka is getting 8-10 mpg at center which means vucevic and biyombo are going to have to split the remaning 38-40 minutes when each probably deserve 26-32 minutes themselves. We aren't going to play Vucevic 28 minutes and leave 10-12 remaining for biyombo (or vice versa). so we're better off trading one (which is going to be vucevic because we just signed biyombo) and picking up a chris Kaman type guy to take the minute scraps so if we play ibaka 40 minutes one night the third string guy knows he's only going to play minimally and he's ok with that. here's how teams beat your big lineup: 1/4 pick and roll to isolate vucevic on the point guard. spread ibaka and biyombo with shooters. drive and kick. on defense, pack the lane and give up 18 footers and dare us to hit the 52.5% it takes to make that an efficient shot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Atli 13 Report post Posted July 27, 2016 reading nba.com the writers are mostly excited to see Domantas Sabonis and Dario Saric in the Olympics out of the rookies... Ironically we drafted both guys and traded them away. :silver_cup: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ufballer1986 12 Report post Posted July 27, 2016 We dont need to trade vuc or byombo, at least until next summer when we see how fa plays out (mainly ibaka) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Boss 129 Report post Posted July 28, 2016 The more I think about it the less I'm in any rush to make a deal involving Vuch. If his value isn't that strong (like what someone else said about Okafor and Monroe being available) then I don't think it's worth trading him. His contract is fantastic and he will be a very valuable player for us, whether it be starting or off the bench. Having a guy like him coming off the bench would be lethal. Biyombo is quite foul prone so far in his career so we need strong back-up for the nights he gets in foul trouble. If we deal Vuch we might have nights where we need to play Zim big minutes and he isn't ready. I know we can slot Ibaka at C and Gordon PF but some teams we won't be able to do that against and if Biyombo is in foul trouble then we need a solid back-up C. The only reasons I'd be happy to trade him is if it's part of a deal to get a great PG or SF, not a guy like Gay or a role player. The other reason to trade would be if he becomes unhappy with his role if we do want to bring him off the bench, you don't want unhappy players on your roster, it can carry over to others and distract the team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ibn Battuta 127 Report post Posted July 28, 2016 The market for above competent centers is crazy. davis 5/127 Drummond 5/127 bosh 5/119 Horford 4/113 Gasol 5/113 whiteside 4/98 Jordan 4/88 Aldridge 4/84 Thompson 4/82 draymond 5/82 Noah 4/73 Dwight 3/71 Kanter 4/70 Biyombo 4/68 Mozgov 4/64 Mahinmi 4/64 Lopez 3/63 Asik 5/58 Robin Lopez 4/54 Vucevic 4/53 plumlee 4/52 Chandler 4/52 Monroe 3/51 Meyers Leonard 4/41 seems about right. I'd rather have Mozgov. If we are judging by small playoff samples Mozgov played pretty well in 2015. I don't think it's the case he suddenly forgot basketball. And Kevin Love played throughout further limiting his role. We know Mozgov has an offensive game and isn't bad on defense. I just don't see "seems about right" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
