2016 NBA Draft Thread

[heisenberg 18]

No on teague and holiday, the rest yes u are correct. Last time I checked those were all more experienced and in better situations.

Lmao your delusional

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

So now Bender is rumored to be more advanced at 18 than Porzingis was.

 

Henny I know scouted him. Think we try to move up to grab him?

 

That's just pre-draft hype or a statement of where porzingis was 3 years ago.

 

Bender needs a few years before he's going to be ready. And Boston isn't going to treat the third pick like the leftover sandwiches after a meeting where all you need to do is claim it.

[fan for too long 2 533]

You have no basis to say Payton is a better basketball player than either Teague or Holiday

 

Holiday is better at every statistical category except assists and rebounding last year. And if you want to say something about assists, Holiday averaged more assists per game the previous 3 seasons than any season in payton's career

Assists are weighted to whom you are passing it to ie. shooters. Do you think Payton has had the same type of shooters that Holiday has had to play with? And Holiday is injured how much? And I guess experience and a solid coach doesn't matter either. Whatever you believe and whatever stats you can dig up will not change my opinion on Payton. I am 51 years old and am not delusional, I have played, coached, and watched basketball my whole life and there is much more to a player than statistics.

[Mauro Pedrosa 1,032]

No on teague and holiday, the rest yes u are correct.

Lol

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Assists are weighted to whom you are passing it to ie. shooters. Do you think Payton has had the same type of shooters that Holiday has had to play with? And Holiday is injured how much? And I guess experience and a solid coach doesn't matter either. Whatever you believe and whatever stats you can dig up will not change my opinion on Payton. I am 51 years old and am not delusional, I have played, coached, and watched basketball my whole life and there is much more to a player than statistics.

 

Fortunately, we live in time where the nba tracks "potential assists"

 

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/passing/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Height=LT%206-7&sort=POTENTIAL_AST&dir=1&CF=GP*G*50

 

by your basis, Ish Smith is about as good of a point guard as Damian Lillard.

 

also, I don't understand your experience point. We're discussing how good a player is today. Do you think Mudiay is better than payton because Payton has more experience?

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

The payton thing is a hard thing to discuss because one side is almost operating from a standpoint where Payton will never get better. The other side is operating from a standpoint where Payton's improvement is guaranteed.

 

Right now he's objectively a bad player with flashes of brilliance and it's debatable, based on our goals, if we want to invest 3 to 5 years in his slow progression into what his potential is when there's a short cut in free agency to upgrade.

 

You cant simultaneously be in the "INVEST IN PAYTON" camp and "HENNIGAN BETTER BUILD US A PLAYOFF TEAM THIS YEAR OR ELSE" camp. because right now those points are on different parts of the map.

[fan for too long 2 533]

Fortunately, we live in time where the nba tracks "potential assists"

 

http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/passing/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Height=LT%206-7&sort=POTENTIAL_AST&dir=1&CF=GP*G*50

 

by your basis, Ish Smith is about as good of a point guard as Damian Lillard.

 

also, I don't understand your experience point. We're discussing how good a player is today. Do you think Mudiay is better than payton because Payton has more experience?

Again statistics are not the only way to determine how good a player is. Potential assists is a ridiculous stat. That is all determined by how the offense is run and the players on that specific team. One players potential assists on his own team would be much different if he was playing on another team.

You named 15 players with more experience than EP. With Payton you have to take that into account unless you believe he has reached his highest level.

[MagicFanInNevada 51]

I def. want us to move the pick in a trade. No more new young rookies, let's add veteran talent.

 

Would you be okay with Denzel Valentine at #11 though?

[fan for too long 2 533]

I never said hennigan better do anything. It takes time to build a winning franchise. He has made solid moves player wise. Coaching has not been good but the timing of his hires has not had alot of options. Luck plays a role and the skiles quitting and vogels firing is a great example of luck and timing.

[fan for too long 2 533]

Would you be okay with Denzel Valentine at #11 though?

Yes please. And Aj Hammond later. Both are ready to contribute now.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Again statistics are not the only way to determine how good a player is. Potential assists is a ridiculous stat. That is all determined by how the offense is run and the players on that specific team. One players potential assists on his own team would be much different if he was playing on another team.

You named 15 players with more experience than EP. With Payton you have to take that into account unless you believe he has reached his highest level.

 

Sure, assists are a ridiculous stat. which is why it's kinda weird to focus on them at all when discussing a player.

 

 

Yeah, we're naming 15 players with more experience than Elfrid because we're discussing "top nba point guards" otherwise we're operating in a hypothetical realm where you believe Elfrid Payton is going to be a star. Its the same realm where 2011 Brandon Jennings was a future MVP and late February 2014 where Terrence Ross was an elite player. Many players flash something special and just turn into average players.

 

Payton isn't garbage. Payton isn't amazing. Payton is a flawed player with a wide range of potential career outcomes that likely depend on the next few years. The main question is "Should we continue to bet on Payton when there are already established players that are more or less available" the answer to that question is "it depends"

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I never said hennigan better do anything. It takes time to build a winning franchise. He has made solid moves player wise. Coaching has not been good but the timing of his hires has not had alot of options. Luck plays a role and the skiles quitting and vogels firing is a great example of luck and timing.

 

sorry I was talking more in general than specifically to your point because there's several people who demand improvement but also want to build around the players we have.