Official 2015 Offseason Thread

[jjgator 164]

But what leverage do we have on a Sign & Trade? Can't the Knicks just be like "Um no" then Harris signs with them anyway? Would the Magic be counting on NYK to see our bluff in matching their max offer?

 

Just curious about the logistics.

 

We could match their offer then trade him later(I think you have to wait several months though, or it might even be the whole season).

[Franchero MVP 391]

Wow. While I don't think he's a max player, I think (as does the rest of the league from reports) Harris is an asset and up-and-coming player. Give the guy some credit.

 

Right, but where does that negate the fact that he was extremely mediocre this year?

 

He's young; I get it. I'm not saying he doesn't have the potential to be a good or even great player -- but as of now he had not given us a reason to pay him big money.

 

He settles for his jump shot far too much, forces things on offense (disrupts the offense in my opinion), doesn't get to line as much as he should, and is mediocre at best on D.

 

Not to mention injury prone as well.

 

Can he get better? Yeah. But I'm not betting Max dollars on it. In my opinion, he's the 4th best player on the team -- behind Payton, Vuc and Vic.

 

He should not be getting more than Vuc in my opinion and his contribution is far less.

[Soul Bro 1,421]

Right, but where does that negate the fact that he was extremely mediocre this year?

Given that you are the only person I have seen say Harris is "extremely mediocre," I believe the burden lies in your court to back that up. I think that's a false statement. Is he worth the max? Not in my book, but I do think he's a young player who has been the second most consistent player on the Magic over the last two years. The numbers back that up:

 

• Harris' PER has been above the league average for the last three years: 16.05 ('12-'13), 16.54 ('13-'14), 16.60 ('14-15)
• Harris is rated as the most effective player for the Magic this season by 82games.com analytics: http://www.82games.c...415/1415ORL.HTM
• Injury prone? He's only missed one less game than Vooch over the last two seasons

Moreover, Harris is still younger than Oladipo, and the coaching situation this year for the Magic has been an absolute dumpster fire. I'm not sure Harris is a fit on this particular team, but it's easy to see he's not been "extremely mediocre" this year. That particular statement is silliness.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Given that you are the only person I have seen say Harris is "extremely mediocre," I believe the burden lies in your court to back that up. I think that's a false statement. Is he worth the max? Not in my book, but I do think he's a young player who has been the second most consistent player on the Magic over the last two years. The numbers back that up:

 

• Harris' PER has been above the league average for the last three years: 16.05 ('12-'13), 16.54 ('13-'14), 16.60 ('14-15)
• Harris is rated as the most effective player for the Magic this season by 82games.com analytics: http://www.82games.c...415/1415ORL.HTM
• Injury prone? He's only missed one less game than Vooch over the last two seasons

Moreover, Harris is still younger than Oladipo, and the coaching situation this year for the Magic has been an absolute dumpster fire. I'm not sure Harris is a fit on this particular team, but it's easy to see he's not been "extremely mediocre" this year. That particular statement is silliness.

 

You really don't want to use simple rating as a way to manage a player's value unless you think Brandon Wright is Dallas' best player, tolliver is better than drummond, and tayshaun prince was Boston's best player this year.

 

Tobias is an interesting conundrum. He's a scorer who's #36 in ppg. However, there are only a handful of guys in his age group that are outscoring him. He's still shown flashes but a lot of empty stats games. He's now two years removed from his epic April 2012.

 

If he's mediocre, then we should have no problem resigning him for cheap. But someone will offer him a bunch of money. How much of that money is potential vs production?

 

I think he might be mediocre now. But he is only 22.

[Soul Bro 1,421]

I think he might be mediocre now. But he is only 22.

Again where are the stats to say he's mediocre or even inconsistent, especially relative to the rest of our team? (Remember that you have discounted RPM and WARP in another thread). I think a lot of fans on here simply have a bias towards certain players.

 

As to the particular criticism of 82games, none of the other guys you mentioned have played starter minutes (30+ mpg).

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Again where are the stats to say he's mediocre or even inconsistent, especially relative to the rest of our team? (Remember that you have discounted RPM and WARP in another thread). I think a lot of fans on here simply have a bias towards certain players.

 

As to the particular criticism of 82games, none of the other guys you mentioned have played starter minutes (30+ mpg).

 

Because he's scored ~16 points per game on for multiple years with very bad defense. His mid range game isn't much to speak of. With the ball in his hands he doesn't look for other players.

 

Surprisingly good at corner threes!

 

Harris is mediocre in the scope of what he is now. I think you're adjusting for potential where we are not (a similar analysis would show Wiggins SUUUUCKS right now). But Wiggins has a high value because he's shown he can get better.

 

Harris is mediocre but has value because he's 22.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

also, those 82 games figures haven't been updated since 2/18

[Voodoo Man 99]

Because he's scored ~16 points per game on for multiple years with very bad defense. His mid range game isn't much to speak of. With the ball in his hands he doesn't look for other players.

 

Surprisingly good at corner threes!

 

Harris is mediocre in the scope of what he is now. I think you're adjusting for potential where we are not (a similar analysis would show Wiggins SUUUUCKS right now). But Wiggins has a high value because he's shown he can get better.

 

Harris is mediocre but has value because he's 22.

Unfortunately for the Magic, unless they sign someone who is capable of filling the 16 PPG void that we will have when he leaves, this team will be seriously challenged on offense. If we draft a forward who can bring instant offense, or sign a proven free agent, I'm all in for letting Harris walk. If that doesn't happen, next year is going to be ugly.

[Franchero MVP 391]

You really don't want to use simple rating as a way to manage a player's value unless you think Brandon Wright is Dallas' best player, tolliver is better than drummond, and tayshaun prince was Boston's best player this year.

 

Tobias is an interesting conundrum. He's a scorer who's #36 in ppg. However, there are only a handful of guys in his age group that are outscoring him. He's still shown flashes but a lot of empty stats games. He's now two years removed from his epic April 2012.

 

If he's mediocre, then we should have no problem resigning him for cheap. But someone will offer him a bunch of money. How much of that money is potential vs production?

 

I think he might be mediocre now. But he is only 22.

 

Thank you!

 

Arguing otherwise is just homerism in my opinion.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Unfortunately for the Magic, unless they sign someone who is capable of filling the 16 PPG void that we will have when he leaves, this team will be seriously challenged on offense. If we draft a forward who can bring instant offense, or sign a proven free agent, I'm all in for letting Harris walk. If that doesn't happen, next year is going to be ugly.

 

 

Maybe luol deng.

[Franchero MVP 391]

Unfortunately for the Magic, unless they sign someone who is capable of filling the 16 PPG void that we will have when he leaves, this team will be seriously challenged on offense. If we draft a forward who can bring instant offense, or sign a proven free agent, I'm all in for letting Harris walk. If that doesn't happen, next year is going to be ugly.

 

It depends on how much he's offered, simple as that. I really doubt Henny isn't looking at alternative players right now in case we can't match. He found Harris riding the Bucks bench -- I trust he does his homework.

[Voodoo Man 99]

Maybe luol deng.

I would be on board with that.