Catman 380 Report post Posted June 4, 2015 Whatever you're trying to do, it's not making the point you think you're making. How many "Im so clever" posts are you going to make until you actually put homework so you can provide some semblance of a point? Last time I checked you had zero backing to any of your opinion and couldn't even prove you understood how to process the data I presented. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Catman 380 Report post Posted June 4, 2015 Also, all I said was Frye was higher in that list than Davis. Nothing more. Didn't imply anything until you started pulling your typical stuff You mean your typical stuff - a snarky one sentence response that is usually backed by briefly glancing over whatever was posted. It's funny how you always want to tell me I talk down to people when the reality is you do the same exact thing and for some reason you think it's ok. At least I spend time in my responses and post reason and logic instead of 2 sentences. If you had read more into what I posted you would be able to see how he compiled his stats better and it would help you see why Ed Davis is not going to be a huge improvement for us as a rim protector. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTMagicUK 1,491 Report post Posted June 4, 2015 Numbers can say whatever you want them to.I tend to find that if a (simple) statistic doesn't accurately support what I see with my eyes (when it comes to basketball) then there is an inherent flaw in how it's calculated. Correlation does not imply causation. Just because Frye has a better Rim FG% (by all of 2% by the way) allowed doesn't mean that Frye is a better rim protector. That stat is influenced by a whole load of stuff that is beyond the scope of simple numbers. Who they're playing against, the system they're in, what counts as a contest? Like when I see two or three guys go up and challenge do they all get the contest or just the guy originally guarding the player? The system is flawed either way because if they all get the contest then how do you determine who's contest was the one that made the guy miss thus you're reducing all 3 guys at rim % because of the play of their teammates. And if it's just one guy who gets the contest then again, he gets credit for the effort of other players. It could be noted that Davis had a much much lower rim FG% allowed the previous year when he played for Memphis. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Catman 380 Report post Posted June 4, 2015 Numbers can say whatever you want them to.I tend to find that if a statistic doesn't accurately support what I see with my eyes (when it comes to basketball) then there is an inherent flaw in how it's calculated. Correlation does not imply causation. Just because Frye has a better Rim FG% (by all of 2% by the way) allowed doesn't mean that Frye is a better rim protector. That stat is influenced by a whole load of stuff that is beyond the scope of simple numbers. Who they're playing against, the system they're in, what counts as a contest? Like when I see two or three guys go up and challenge do they all get the contest or just the guy originally guarding the player? The system is flawed either way because if they all get the contest then how do you determine who's contest was the one that made the guy miss thus you're reducing all 3 guys at rim % because of the play of their teammates. And if it's just one guy who gets the contest then again, he gets credit for the effort of other players. It could be noted that Davis had a much much lower rim FG% allowed the previous year when he played for Memphis. Yes, which is why you have to be familiar with the players and watch them too. Which is easy with youtube. It takes a little time, but you will come to the same conclusions most likely. I said that earlier. I have always said eye test and numbers. I can't just go by raw stats. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTMagicUK 1,491 Report post Posted June 4, 2015 Yes, which is why you have to be familiar with the players and watch them too. Which is easy with youtube. It takes a little time, but you will come to the same conclusions most likely. I said that earlier. I have always said eye test and numbers. I can't just go by raw stats. But you JUST posted the stat on it's own to try and say Davis was a worse rim protector than Frye. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Catman 380 Report post Posted June 4, 2015 But you JUST posted the stat on it's own to try and say Davis was a worse rim protector than Frye. No I did not. Its MULTIPLE STATS. How can you not see the many columns? The point is that Davis is not much better than Frye.Look at their MPG.. Look at the film. This guy would not make huge difference. Read this as well - http://nyloncalculus.com/2014/07/22/protecting-paint-sportvu-rim-protection/ This is not an easy stat to measure. But show me your way of doing it, or anyone else's. That is all I have asked an I have seen nothing back yet except snark responses. Additionally if we get WCS or Porzingis then we have Frye, Nicholson and Gordon as well playing some 4. So do we really need another guy? Just doesn't compute to me without 2 trades going down. It makes more sense that the Magic may pursue a backup 5 in Koufos. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted June 4, 2015 You mean your typical stuff - a snarky one sentence response that is usually backed by briefly glancing over whatever was posted. It's funny how you always want to tell me I talk down to people when the reality is you do the same exact thing and for some reason you think it's ok. At least I spend time in my responses and post reason and logic instead of 2 sentences. If you had read more into what I posted you would be able to see how he compiled his stats better and it would help you see why Ed Davis is not going to be a huge improvement for us as a rim protector. ALL I SAID WAS FRYE WAS HIGHER ON THE LIST THAN DAVIS. Whatever context you added was your own. I made no implications. I didn't try to discredit the statistic. I just stated a fact. You want to know what I was really thinking? I was going over all the plays in my head where he just sat there and tried to be big and thought maybe it was more effective than I initially thought. Then you responded about how there are no better rim protection stats and I responded how that's an illogical stance to take on something because just because something better doesn't exist doesn't mean that thing is valid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTMagicUK 1,491 Report post Posted June 4, 2015 No I did not. Its MULTIPLE STATS. How can you not see the many columns? The point is that Davis is not much better than Frye.Look at their MPG.. Look at the film. This guy would not make huge difference. Read this as well - http://nyloncalculus.com/2014/07/22/protecting-paint-sportvu-rim-protection/ Oh right my bad... 4 stats. All of which are calculated using the same data set. I'm not even arguing Frye over Davis or Davis over Frye, I honestly don't think Davis is that great but you're challenging people to read how the stats are compiled etc and understand the stats and I understand them just fine and disagree.(EDIT:) with how you tried to use it like it was definitive proof. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Catman 380 Report post Posted June 4, 2015 But you JUST posted the stat on it's own to try and say Davis was a worse rim protector than Frye. I don't believe Davis is a worse rim protector than Frye BTW. He's just not a huge upgrade. I do believe there are fewer guys good at this skill than is put out there and the term rim protector is being used too liberally right now. That was my point when I started talking about WCS as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Catman 380 Report post Posted June 4, 2015 Oh right my bad... 4 stats. All of which are calculated using the same data set. I'm not even arguing Frye over Davis or Davis over Frye, I honestly don't think Davis is that great but you're challenging people to read how the stats are compiled etc and understand the stats and I understand them just fine and disagree.(EDIT:) with how you tried to use it like it was definitive proof. Yeah I'm saying we have a guy who shot 39% from 3 and played the same amount of minutes as Davis did. And he was not as bad on defense as people think (even though he was not great by any means). People are hating the WCS pick and saying we need offense, but they want to swap out a stretch 4 like Frye for a guy like Davis and I just find that contradictory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Catman 380 Report post Posted June 4, 2015 Oh right my bad... 4 stats. All of which are calculated using the same data set. I'm not even arguing Frye over Davis or Davis over Frye, I honestly don't think Davis is that great but you're challenging people to read how the stats are compiled etc and understand the stats and I understand them just fine and disagree.(EDIT:) with how you tried to use it like it was definitive proof. I never said it was definitive proof. There is no definitive proof for rim protection as said earlier and as said in the same article with the stats that I linked. It literally says all of that right in it. You just have to use the numbers AND your eyes. As I said before multiple times. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted June 4, 2015 We should probably overpay for robin Lopez Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
