Magic sign Channing Frye

[Bauncey Chillups 288]

Frye was a starter on a 48 win almost-playoff team in the Western conference, he'll start here too.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

Do you really believe it's wise to pay a guy 8 million when in the very near future he's going to be a backup? Frye is a one dimensional player, he can shoot the three. He doesn't rebound, he doesn't move the ball well, and he doesn't defend well. Veteran leadership and outside shooting isn't worth 8 million per year.

 

The new rookies will get paid when Rob decides he wants to pay them. We don't know when that will be. Harris and Vuc will have new contracts after next season, the offseason everyone has their eye on because Durant will be a free agent. The talk around here has been about maintaining flexibility. How does adding 8 million for the summer of 2016 help maintain that flexibility? Also, it's not difficult to imagine Rob extending Oladipo in the next 2-3 seasons. What about Harkless and Fournier, they are due for extensions one year after Harris and Vuc. I just don't agree that adding Frye is a "non-issue cap wise". We have several big contracts coming up within the time frame that Frye's contract will be on the books.

 

First, I think you are taking a very extreme, narrow minded look at Frye's value. It's already been stated that while we did overpay, the amount we might have overpaid is not much, particularly considering the "report" that he was estimated to go above the MLE. When you take into account the overall team position we are in, overpaying him to get him here is understandable. That still doesn't account for your blatant disregard for what he brings to the team, and boiling him down to "he just shoots threes". That's fine if you want to buy into that, but it's pretty clear that a large contention here, and Hennigan himself, see value beyond that.

 

Also, first round rookie contracts are two years with two team options to extend it to a total of four. There aren't many scenarios where we would push Dipo, or the new rookies off of those contracts to pay them more before we absolutely have to. So, when we say things like "Frye's contract is up at the same time the new rookies will get paid", that's the point. Assuming Payton and Gordon pan out, you can look at Frye basically sitting on some of the cap space that will be reserved for their new contracts.

 

As for Harkless and Fournier, well, you just have to come to the realization that not every player on our team is a core player. Some of these guys are going to stick around, some are going to get overpaid by other teams and be lured away. Heck, at what Frye's getting paid, it's reasonable to assume he could be moved to a contender if we needed the space down the road, or even another team that just needs spacing like we do currently.

[Catman 380]

I'd take Parsons at 12.5 million over four years over Frye at 8 million over four years. He'd bring far more to the team, and just as importantly he's a guy that's not on his way out of the NBA like Frye is. The Gordon contract is semantics, you knew what I was getting at. Give me a young player that can grow with the team over aging vets that have no future here. Especially if you have to overpay those aging vets to land them in the first place.

 

I find your explanation of PER ridiculous, so there's not much more to say really. You're changing your criteria for what you consider value based on what suits your argument. Frye's PER is bad, so you move on to something else and pretend THAT matters instead. Spare me.

 

I never said Gordon was a bad pick at four, I said he wouldn't be worth the 4th overall slot if he was at best a backup his first two years in the league. Nice attempt at twisting what I said. Embiid is obviously an exception to that mindset because he's hurt, he can't play regardless. But keep trying to tie those two together as if their situations are the same, have a blast.

 

Define what "far more" to the team is. Frye is not on his way out of the NBA either. A stretch 4 can play into their mid 30s just fine.

 

You find my explanation of PER ridiculous most likely because you did not understand what I said. I feel like it was pretty clear and explained why I said what I did. If you want to measure a stretch 4 by PER- fine, go ahead. It appears to make you feel better about your argument even though it is not grounded at all in reality.

 

I have not twisted anything you said. Your claim was that if Gordon was not going to start off the bat then this was a bad pick by the Magic. I gave you examples of why that is simply not the case.

[Stu Bronsilino 313]

Linking my chops at payton/frye high pick and pops with AG back cutting or cleaning up on offensive boards

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

Another thing you get wrong. I said overpaying to lure a player away from opposing teams is fine if you're an established team in need of a veteran (or young guy, impact player, whatever) , OR the player is young enough to be part of your future. Again you attempt to change what I said.

 

Frye doesn't offer enough in the short term to make us championship contenders, and he doesn't offer enough long term because he's 31 and already only a one dimensional player. Again, vet leadership and outside shooting doesn't need to cost 8 million, especially when that player is irrelevant in terms of increasing your teams chance of winning a championship, now or in the future.

 

Frye is coming in to help this team move forward, to help them toward their goal of becoming a contender. You don't just go from a young rebuilding team to an established play off team overnight. You need veteran guys along the way to help bridge the gap, help develop the young guys, help establish or support the team culture. You need to bridge that gap. You don't see the difference, the path, you see the destination, but you're ignoring the journey.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

Linking my chops at payton/frye high pick and pops with AG back cutting or cleaning up on offensive boards

 

I know, right? It's going to really help Payton to have a guy like Frye around to help make things a little easier.

[Catman 380]

I didn't say he's on the downside of his prime, I said he might be by the time we're contenders. How many times are you going to quote me and claim I said something I didn't? This is getting ridiculous. Are you just this poor at reading comprehension?

 

Another thing you get wrong. I said overpaying to lure a player away from opposing teams is fine if you're an established team in need of a veteran (or young guy, impact player, whatever) , OR the player is young enough to be part of your future. Again you attempt to change what I said.

 

Frye doesn't offer enough in the short term to make us championship contenders, and he doesn't offer enough long term because he's 31 and already only a one dimensional player. Again, vet leadership and outside shooting doesn't need to cost 8 million, especially when that player is irrelevant in terms of increasing your teams chance of winning a championship, now or in the future.

 

It seems like you are really into personal attacks when you get upset. That's ok, I don;t really mind if that makes you feel better about yourself.

 

This is an 8mm contract. Its not like we overpaid rashard lewis and ruined our cap flexibility in a panic move. I feel like that should be pretty obvious, but you are making it out like having a guy here for 8mm (our biggest contract) is a future crushing move, and it's not. I remember posting that the Magic would give out an 8mm deal last week when you started your tirade, so I don't see where I was wrong there.

 

Do you really expect to contend for a title this year? wow. Without Lebron, thats not happening. If you think this team is supposed to contend right now, then it is no wonder you are this upset. We are 2-4 years out. Thats just how it is. Having one 8mm player ( a second tier free agent and a skilled stretch 4) on a title team who can start for 2-3 years if needed only helps things move faster.

[Catman 380]

No, that was not my claim. Twice now you've attempted to pin that on me and twice now I'm telling you that you're wrong. For the third time, I said that if he's only capable of being a backup his first two seasons in the league, he's not worth the 4th overall pick. Where are you getting this idea that I said he needs to "start off the bat"? Seriously, show me where I said this.

 

Your "example" was to mention Embiid, a guy who won't be playing because he's injured, it has nothing at all to do with skill. If Gordon isn't capable of starting over the next two years, it will be because of skill. Again, how are these situations the same? It's just a bad comparison.

 

Thats the same thing. You either start or backup. I mean are you at a point where you just argue semantics now? This is borderline ridiculous.

 

Embiid is also a project AFTER he recovers from injury. He too, is a raw player that needs time to develop. Or did you consider him NBA ready off the bat even though he has only played basketball for a few years?

[Catman 380]

I agree. Price and Maxiell could do just that, for a fraction of the cost without sacrificing future flexibility. You don't need to spend 32 million for veteran leadership.

 

Did you seriously compare Maxiel to Frye? Is that real?

 

You don't get this signing AT ALL. That is laughable. They are not even the same player, and Frye is top notch as a leader as well as a much better fit for the Magic's scheme.

 

LOL..amazing.

[Tom Ford 9]

Did you seriously compare Maxiel to Frye? Is that real?

 

You don't get this signing AT ALL. That is laughable. They are not even the same player, and Frye is top notch as a leader as well as a much better fit for the Magic's scheme.

 

LOL..amazing.

 

Oh my lord no he didn't go there.. wait wait yeah he did. Price and Maxiel.. that's so funny the last time I heard that I fell of my dinosaur. Price+Maxiel were nothing more than a D League/Summer League player. The fact that you can't grasp why this signing is a good one is crazy. So what we paid a little more for a stretch 4 that "can only shoot the 3".

 

 

Did you not see the part where he raised Dragic's 3 ball from 29.1 to 46.7 % just by being on the floor? That's huge, almost 20% increase all just because he can space things out. Or did you not see the pick and pop the suns ran time after time with Frye and Dragic. The Magic will run that as well and we could even have more options with it IE: Gordon lob, Dipo jumpshot, Frye 3..

 

I think we are all nervous/excited with the big FA's out there however we are in no spot to lure them here. It's going to take time like everyone has said 2-4 years, it could be improved with a big FA in 15' of 16' but lets trust the system until it can't be trusted/dumps progressing players for a Gilbert Arenas.

[Tom Ford 9]

Veteran leadership is veteran leadership, Frye can provide it, and so can Price or Maxiell. Arguing who provides more of it is absolutely ludicrous.

 

I'm not comparing those two players with Frye, because that doesn't even matter. Price and Maxiell aren't short or long term answers, and neither is Frye. The type of players each of them are is irrelevant.

 

 

How is Frye not a short term answer? He creates space to help our rookie/2nd year players to get better shots and be more confident on the court. He is better than any PF we have on the team and will start from day 1. He wasn't brought here for Veteran Leadership alone, if you think/agree with that then that's ok.

[magicblue 315]

Guys, could you kindly stop quoting Eskobar 's posts? It defeats the purpose of me ignoring him. ;)