If not Stan, Who?

[fan for too long 2 531]

So by your logic, if Otis signed me and my old high school team, after a few months with a truly great defensive coach we should be able to defend NBA players, right? Talent doesn't mean anything, I guess. If Stan were a better defensive coach, Hedo Turkoglu would be the defensive player of the year, and Jason Richardson would be the League MVP.

 

Awesome.

 

 

Jokes aside these are NBA players and Stan has had most of them for years. So dont you think that their defense would improve? And even he says they cant defend anybody, I believe these players are capable of defending good, but they for some reason cant figure out stans rotations and schemes. What is your learned opinion?

[Justin Jaudon 221]

Jokes aside these are NBA players and Stan has had most of them for years. So dont you think that their defense would improve? And even he says they cant defend anybody, I believe these players are capable of defending good, but they for some reason cant figure out stans rotations and schemes. What is your learned opinion?

 

My opinion is that the players who have worked hard have learned. Ryan Anderson's defense is improved considerably over what it was when he came to Orlando, and I have seen him getting better over this year. JJ is the best example, though, as he is actually a solid defensive player as long as his man isn't too much taller than he is. The issue is it takes a full season to get Stan's system down even for a veteran. Big Baby is still getting the hang of it, and he is a good help defender. Stan has mostly said that they can't defend anybody at the rim, and that has to do with not having a shot-blocker at all.

 

Mostly, though, defense is about habits and mindset. changing the mindset and habits of a guy like, say, Jason Richardson is very difficult. He has been playing basketball in the NBA for more than ten years, and his man to man D is just bad. Sometimes it is okay, but other times he gambles when he should sit back, or sits back and lets a guy shoot over him. As far as Nelson goes, he's mostly not that bad. It seems like he gets out of position occasionally, but when I look back at it, I usually see that he was just rotating and no one else rotated with him. His biggest problem is just that he's small. He's the guy whose offense and leadership make him worth keeping on the floor, but you need to be able to compensate for his lack of size on the defensive end. As far as I know, Stan can't make Nelson taller. Hedo is actually a good defensive player when he cares enough to do it. The problem is, he rarely seems to care. Stan can yell and Stan can encourage, which he does both with Hedo, but no one can make a guy give a sh** if he doesn't. He keeps him in the game because the alternative is a stagnant offense when Dwight is out there.

 

Which of these guys who struggles defensively gives you the impression that with a better coach they would be better defenders?

 

When Dwight is in the game, they usually have a pretty good defense. They have lapses, but I think they get more attention because Stan draws so much attention to it when their D doesn't play well. Until this year they have always been one of the best in the league with defensive efficiency. This year has been a circus, so I have a hard time giving a guy too much crap for not being able to make a bunch of out-of-shape bums and Dwight into a great D with almost no practice time between games.

[joezmagic 0]

This is all to bad this is going on because SVG is a great coach...Too bad we have a great player and a premadonna that does not want a good coach. I like SVG too much to let him go, he has done too many good things for the Magic, more than anyone! leave it alone. no one will do as good...Do we Trade and get two better players, because we are playing great just need to tweak a few players, as lomg as we play together???? Dwight is not the end of the world, We need a great coach wit good players not PREMODONNAS!!

[joezmagic 0]

Jokes aside these are NBA players and Stan has had most of them for years. So dont you think that their defense would improve? And even he says they cant defend anybody, I believe these players are capable of defending good, but they for some reason cant figure out stans rotations and schemes. What is your learned opinion?

 

 

TURK ONLY PLAYES WHEN HE WANT TO!

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

Jokes aside these are NBA players and Stan has had most of them for years. So dont you think that their defense would improve? And even he says they cant defend anybody, I believe these players are capable of defending good, but they for some reason cant figure out stans rotations and schemes. What is your learned opinion?

 

Some of the players have improved, some have peaked and some are on the decline. No one on this team outside of Dwight is a "good" defender.

[the notorious S.A.C. 89]

Yeah Gortat was a really bad player and that's why we traded him.

[/quote

 

 

You do know he was only getting 3 points and 4 boards a game....no one would have given us anything more for him. Look I didn't say it.

[fan for too long 2 531]

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[/quote

 

 

Which of these guys who struggles defensively gives you the impression that with a better coach they would be better defenders?

 

 

 

I do think a simpler defensive scheme would help this team. And I am not in favor of getting a single minded defensive coach, we already have that. I would like a coach with a more offensive mindset. Our offensive schemes are so damm boring and predictable. With better players of course. I do not think SVG is a bad coach, but he is not great and to win a championship you need a great coach and/or multiple great and intelligent players. I feel Stan has run his course with this team and its time for a change.

[Emory889 353]

Jokes aside these are NBA players and Stan has had most of them for years. So dont you think that their defense would improve? And even he says they cant defend anybody, I believe these players are capable of defending good, but they for some reason cant figure out stans rotations and schemes. What is your learned opinion?

 

No!!!!!

 

There are a lot of players in this league that simply can not defend anyone. Otis has miraculously managed to bring in an entire roster of them. This concept that a good defensive coach can somehow turn awful defenders into good ones is laughably absurd. By that logic, a good offensive coach should be able to turn a terrible offensive player in a 20ppg scorer.

[Emory889 353]

I'll also say that anyone that can't comprehend why the defense is currently struggling has no idea exactly how valuable Howard is on the defensive end. None.

[fan for too long 2 531]

No!!!!!

 

There are a lot of players in this league that simply can not defend anyone. Otis has miraculously managed to bring in an entire roster of them. This concept that a good defensive coach can somehow turn awful defenders into good ones is laughably absurd. By that logic, a good offensive coach should be able to turn a terrible offensive player in a 20ppg scorer.

 

So according to you, they wont even improve no mattter what kind of coach they have. Good to know. Thanks

[Justin Jaudon 221]

 

I do think a simpler defensive scheme would help this team. And I am not in favor of getting a single minded defensive coach, we already have that. I would like a coach with a more offensive mindset. Our offensive schemes are so damm boring and predictable. With better players of course. I do not think SVG is a bad coach, but he is not great and to win a championship you need a great coach and/or multiple great and intelligent players. I feel Stan has run his course with this team and its time for a change.

 

In what way do you think Stan should simplify his defensive scheme? There's a reason when you watch teams like Boston, whose scheme you might consider more simple than Stan's, they have a good defense. They have good defensive players. Boston's players are defensive-minded guys who pressure the ball because the wings are quick and they have Garnett to cover backside defense. Orlando doesn't pressure the ball as much because neither Jameer, JRich, Duhon, or JJ can pressure the ball effectively. That lack of ball pressure requires that Stan run a defense revolving around a lot of flash pressing on the high blocks and on the perimeter, but that means a lot of rotation is necessary to cover up the holes created. Rotations get complicated, thus the complicated scheme.

 

I somewhat agree with the boringness of the the offensive scheme, but that is a tough issue. Back in '09, Orlando did a lot more pick and roll, which was boring then, too, but very effective, especially when teams starting trying to cheat it, and then they had either a field day downtown or inside with Dwight.

 

The next year, the team struggled to get used to Carter instead of Hedo, and Carter did not have the killer instinct to really fill the role. Also, Shard got off the supplements he was taking and apparently aged 10 years in one off-season. By the end of the season, though, they were clicking; they swept two rounds of the playoffs before going completely cold from downtown against Boston. I hear people complain about Stan for not adjusting early in that series, but I think completely restructuring your offense, which had been destroying people for weeks, should be a last resort. Doing so too soon might even be considered "panicking".

 

The offense didn't really get bad until last year. I think part of the problem there was that they were afraid of getting cold in the playoffs again, so they tried to become an "inside-out" team. Early on, it didn't work because Howard was the only one who could operate within the three-point line. So they traded Shard, and the offense got better running inside-out for a while, but eventually people realized that without Carter no one on the team could penetrate anymore. So again, Stan had to change everything to suit his personnel. He could no longer run the pick and roll, because Hedo had lost a step and was no longer effective with it. He didn't have a good enough distributor at the point to get heavy penetration there, and he didn't have good enough passers to run any sort of triangle. He had to go with the inside out, post and re-post offense, but good teams could just collapse in and flash out on the three point shooters. The only X-factor was Bass, but if you just don't let him get totally uncontested shots he's not gonna beat you himself. So they were screwed without a penetrator, and when they went cold again in the playoffs, Dwight couldn't do enough by himself to get the win (Crawford hitting contested shots from 30 feet out didn't help either).

 

This offseason, instead of dumping the dead wait that was and is Jason Richardson, Otis gave him a big fat payday to try and make his and Dwight's agent happy. The team went back to the 4-1 offense, but the pick and role wasn't as effective. Jameer wasn't himself amidst the Dwight drama early this season, and while Hedo started off running the PnR well, it didn't really last. And so at times the offense lolls back into what it was last year, especially when Baby is in at the 4. Now, with no Dwight and Jameer playing better, they are back to ball movement and pick and roll. It is somewhat easier now, because while Dwight is great at getting position and dunking inside, he sometimes doesn't clear out when other players break into the lane; instead he often positions himself for a lob or an offensive board. He got better at that as the season went along, though, and he dropped some of the habits he learned in the post-heavy offense from last year.

 

I know, you're gonna say, "you're making all these excuses for Stan." I'm not. I'm showing the theme that he consistently did the smart thing, the best thing, with what he had. He just didn't have the right pieces to be successful. There are things he could have done better, and there are things most coaches would have done a lot worse. But most all of those things are now seen in hindsight. The only thing I cannot understand is Duhon. Maybe Ish is a terrible practice player, I don't know. You can pick apart any coach in the league and find something to hate on, including Phil Jackson's allowing Kobe to spend weeks in take-25-a-night mode, or under-using Bynum at times in the offense (and that's just at a glance).

 

Anyone with any objectivity and comprehension skills can see Stan is a top coach in this league. Sadly, I think he's gonna be gone next year. But I can't see it as right, even if it's the right choice. Dwight over Stan, sure. But don't expect things to get better without better personnel.

[Emory889 353]

So according to you, they wont even improve no mattter what kind of coach they have. Good to know. Thanks

 

Yes, that is exactly what I'm telling you. 30+ year old players are not going to suddenly become good defenders.