MVP Race

[Sabian Jackson 0]

Hakeem specifically said his GOALS in soccer and defending were similar, not how it was played. Soccer helps with footwork and agility, as well as reflexes. But to say blocking a layup/jumpshot and blocking a kicked ball is just absolutely ridiculous from anyone who has any slight knowledge of both games and have played them. Besides the amount of space you have to work with, the varying speeds of the ball that are coming at you, distance, and etc, I'm actually quite convinced you're just trying to argue this because 1) you're bored or 2) you have never played either sport 3) you're very close to stupid. . .

 

Well, I can only conclude from this that you are in fact the one who has never played either sport. My experience of a corner kick, as a goalkeeper, is very similar in my eyes to layups etc in basketball. Oh, and just so you know, I played at a county level for under 20s in football/soccer, competing nationally here in the UK. And, if you actually knew anything about soccer/football internationally, you would also know that the youth systems here are some of the best in the world.

 

I would also say you are kind of contradicting yourself by saying that the agility and reflexes that are used in soccer are helpful, even though apparently they are completely different and incomparable situations that occur in both.

 

I honestly do not know how you can even begin to say that the speeds, space and distance are completely different either. There is no set speed, space or distance that a shot can come in from in football. It's completely variable. Therefore, there will almost definitely be situations where the ball is travelling similarly to any said ball in basketball. To suggest otherwise represents a certain level of madness only attributed to those locked away.

[BMP 424]

Well, I can only conclude from this that you are in fact the one who has never played either sport. My experience of a corner kick, as a goalkeeper, is very similar in my eyes to layups etc in basketball. Oh, and just so you know, I played at a county level for under 20s in football/soccer, competing nationally here in the UK. And, if you actually knew anything about soccer/football internationally, you would also know that the youth systems here are some of the best in the world.

 

I would also say you are kind of contradicting yourself by saying that the agility and reflexes that are used in soccer are helpful, even though apparently they are completely different and incomparable situations that occur in both.

 

I honestly do not know how you can even begin to say that the speeds, space and distance are completely different either. There is no set speed, space or distance that a shot can come in from in football. It's completely variable. Therefore, there will almost definitely be situations where the ball is travelling similarly to any said ball in basketball. To suggest otherwise represents a certain level of madness only attributed to those locked away.

 

What the hell are you talking about? First of all, how am I exactly contradicting myself? To say something helps you with something else isn't the same as saying both of these things are similar. Not in any way shape, or form.

 

 

Really, at this point you're just trolling. To compare blocking a < 5 feet layup to a 20 foot kick coming at over 50mph. What's next, are you going to say that shooting a basketball is similar to a throw-in? Or that shooting a free throw is similar to kicking a penalty?

[Sabian Jackson 0]

What the hell are you talking about? First of all, how am I exactly contradicting myself? To say something helps you with something else isn't the same as saying both of these things are similar. Not in any way shape, or form.

 

 

Really, at this point you're just trolling. To compare blocking a < 5 feet layup to a 20 foot kick coming at over 50mph. What's next, are you going to say that shooting a basketball is similar to a throw-in? Or that shooting a free throw is similar to kicking a penalty?

 

No-one in there right mind is suggesting a 5 foot layup is the same as a 20 foot shot in football. But, if you watch any football at all, you should know that there is more to football than shots that come in from 20 feet away going 50mph. There are headers, volleys, goal line scrambles, deflections, etc and they can be any distance away from a goalkeeper. I cannot understand how you fail to see that there are times in football where distance, speed and ball flight are very similar to basketball. To argue otherwise is absolutely absurd and represents that you know literally nothing about football.

 

And no, a free throw is not the same as a penalty kick, and I'd ask you where on earth you got that I suggested that, even remotely.

 

And things definitely have to be similar for the skills to be transferable. I'll give you an example, Tennis and Badminton. Both involve racquets, both involve nets, both involve a level of control, but they use completely different muscles, techiniques and trajectories of the object, so to suggest someone who does badminton WILL be good at tennis, or vice versa is not at all accurate. This is why things have to be similar to have transferable skills.

 

Obviously the most obvious benefit can also be seen in fitness levels, but reflexes would have to be similar, since if you're used to reacting to one type of ball/shot/flight and its completely different to basketball as you claim, then you would be used to reacting wrongly to the one you're facing in the other sport. Same reason why players who are injured for a while, and come back before they are match fit, fail to react as quickly as players that are fit.

 

What you seem to be doing is reading something completely different to what I've been saying. If you want to carry on doing that, then this conversation/discussion is pointless.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

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What you seem to be doing is reading something completely different to what I've been saying. If you want to carry on doing that, then this conversation/discussion is pointless.

 

Ahem:

BMP said:

What's next, are you going to say that shooting a basketball is similar to a throw-in? Or that shooting a free throw is similar to kicking a penalty?

You said:

And no, a free throw is not the same as a penalty kick, and I'd ask you where on earth you got that I suggested that, even remotely.

And not that it matters much in the grand scheme of things, but there will be very few, if any, instances where a goal keeper defending any kind of shot attempt will have a similar trajectory as a basketball shot at the NBA level.

The reason for that is simple: a basketball hoop is parallel to the ground and is 10' above it; a soccer goal is 8' tall and perpendicular to the ground. The highest possible soccer shot that would even need to be defended by a goal keeper at the goal line would be more than 2' below the rim of a basketball. NBA shotblockers aren't blocking flat-footed jump shots being thrown up by 5'6" 15 year olds. They're blocking shots that are typically 9+ feet in the air when they're being blocked.

Add in the arc of a typical NBA shot versus the much, much, much lower arc of an average soccer shot, and beyond basic timing, fitness and reflex similarities, and there really isn't this great similarity you're trying to imply. It'd help make instant judgments of trajectory on the fly, I guess, but so would hitting or catching flyballs in baseball or throwing and catching passes in football.

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[Sabian Jackson 0]

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Ahem:

[/color]

And not that it matters much in the grand scheme of things, but there will be very few, if any, instances where a goal keeper defending any kind of shot attempt will have a similar trajectory as a basketball shot at the NBA level.

The reason for that is simple: a basketball hoop is parallel to the ground and is 10' above it; a soccer goal is 8' tall and perpendicular to the ground. The highest possible soccer shot that would even need to be defended by a goal keeper at the goal line would be more than 2' below the rim of a basketball. NBA shotblockers aren't blocking flat-footed jump shots being thrown up by 5'6" 15 year olds. They're blocking shots that are typically 9+ feet in the air when they're being blocked.

Add in the arc of a typical NBA shot versus the much, much, much lower arc of an average soccer shot, and beyond basic timing, fitness and reflex similarities, and there really isn't this great similarity you're trying to imply. It'd help make instant judgments of trajectory on the fly, I guess, but so would hitting or catching flyballs in baseball or throwing and catching passes in football.

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While I would agree with you slightly that baseball and american football would help, there is a big difference between those in the sense that the balls are completely different sizes and in the american football sense, different shapes too. Basketball balls and soccer balls are much much closer in both shape and size.

 

And yes, while a typical shot may be lower, there are fairly regular times when keepers have to contend in the air to catch balls that are higher than the goalpost. This is also a key skill required by them and not just shot blocking, and if a goalkeeper lacks these skills, he will never be a "good" keeper.

 

And you are quite right in you're assessment that it doesn't really matter whether we agree if it would benefit him or not. But I believe it would, and to me, those skills are highly transferable. I do not see why people get so mad or angry when I agreed ultimately with something that someone else said would improve his game, and make him even more intimidating.

 

I believe it is also something he could do relatively easily, however to suggest I'm trolling or stupid is just offensive, particularly when we are only guessing about how easily he could or could not achieve it.

 

And while I got it wrong in that last message about what someone was telling me, you, yourself, did tell me that I had said or implied there were goaltending in soccer/football. I find it highly frustrating particularly as, even though I cannot know for sure, I'm quite confident I know more about soccer than the majority of people, and while that wont mean anything to anyone here nor can I prove it, its the reason I reacted that way.

[BMP 424]

And no, a free throw is not the same as a penalty kick, and I'd ask you where on earth you got that I suggested that, even remotely.

 

 

Because the claims you have made in this thread, as well as comparisons between soccer and basketball, have led me to believe that you're ****ing crazy.

 

I'm quite confident I know more about soccer than the majority of people, and while that wont mean anything to anyone here nor can I prove it, its the reason I reacted that way.

 

Don't be . . . I've played and followed soccer since I was born, although in the last 5 years most of my attention has gone to basketball because I feel like it hasn't been the same without guys like Ronaldo & the rapid increase in flopping, not to mention basketball is a lot more fun to analyze.

[Sabian Jackson 0]

Because the claims you have made in this thread, as well as comparisons between soccer and basketball, have led me to believe that you're ****ing crazy.

 

 

 

Don't be . . . I've played and followed soccer since I was born, although in the last 5 years most of my attention has gone to basketball because I feel like it hasn't been the same without guys like Ronaldo & the rapid increase in flopping, not to mention basketball is a lot more fun to analyze.

 

 

I too have watched and played football since I was born. I played for my county and had trials for my home town. I've watched them week in week out for the last 10 years and I even coached a under 12 team for 2 years. I also find it hard to believe that you have anywhere near as much coverage of football as we do here in England, since it is our national sport, and our entire country goes absolutely crazy when there is a big tournament on.

 

And yes, while football has gone quite silly at times with diving from players like Ronaldo, they are also quite a substantial amount more skilful than we've ever seen before. Players like Lionel Messi are a joy to watch, and truly could become one of the greatest players of all time. He is probably light years ahead of anyone else at the moment, and if you were going to make a World XI, I think you should be shot if you put anyone other than him down first.

 

While you are entitled to believe I'm crazy, I'd appreciate you not being abusive about it. If you don't think it would help, fair enough. I do, and since neither of us are ever really going to be in a position to tell, I could think you are as crazy as me for thinking the opposite.

[BMP 424]

I too have watched and played football since I was born. I played for my county and had trials for my home town. I've watched them week in week out for the last 10 years and I even coached a under 12 team for 2 years. I also find it hard to believe that you have anywhere near as much coverage of football as we do here in England, since it is our national sport, and our entire country goes absolutely crazy when there is a big tournament on.

 

And yes, while football has gone quite silly at times with diving from players like Ronaldo, they are also quite a substantial amount more skilful than we've ever seen before. Players like Lionel Messi are a joy to watch, and truly could become one of the greatest players of all time. He is probably light years ahead of anyone else at the moment, and if you were going to make a World XI, I think you should be shot if you put anyone other than him down first.

 

While you are entitled to believe I'm crazy, I'd appreciate you not being abusive about it. If you don't think it would help, fair enough. I do, and since neither of us are ever really going to be in a position to tell, I could think you are as crazy as me for thinking the opposite.

 

 

I'm talking about the loss of the good Ronaldo, best striker in the world, not flopping Ronaldo.

[Sabian Jackson 0]

I'm talking about the loss of the good Ronaldo, best striker in the world, not flopping Ronaldo.

 

Ah. My mistake. It was late last night here, and I was tired. The diving Ronaldo has disappeared from the UK a fair bit now because of the move to spain, so I just wasnt thinking properly.

 

The Brazilian Ronaldo was incredible. One of the most devastating strikers I've ever seen. Top top player. Shame he had so many injuries and weight issues. (And stupid haircuts).

 

Unfortunately, like a lot of players, so much potential, but a fairly short lived career at the top. Ronaldinho is/was kind of the same. Seems that one has had a bit of a revivial in Flamengo though.

[BMP 424]

Ah. My mistake. It was late last night here, and I was tired. The diving Ronaldo has disappeared from the UK a fair bit now because of the move to spain, so I just wasnt thinking properly.

 

The Brazilian Ronaldo was incredible. One of the most devastating strikers I've ever seen. Top top player. Shame he had so many injuries and weight issues. (And stupid haircuts).

 

Unfortunately, like a lot of players, so much potential, but a fairly short lived career at the top. Ronaldinho is/was kind of the same. Seems that one has had a bit of a revivial in Flamengo though.

 

Ronaldo had 10 exceptional years, then got fat. Ronaldinho I think just got lazy and way too full of himself, then not getting selected to Brazil's squad last World Cup must've woken him up.

[Sabian Jackson 0]

Ronaldo had 10 exceptional years, then got fat. Ronaldinho I think just got lazy and way too full of himself, then not getting selected to Brazil's squad last World Cup must've woken him up.

 

I dunno, he had some bad injury problems for a couple of years in the middle at Inter, and I'm not sure his time in the Dutch league can necessarily be described as exceptional. That league has a reputation of being pretty average compared to the rest of Europe, plus Ajax were the only good team at the time. 1996 - 2000 best player in the world probably, and the first 2-3 years at Madrid he was great again. I actually have a Ronaldo shirt from his Madrid days.

 

This discussion really should be moved to the off-topic one now, but ah well. I am really looking forward to Chelsea vs Manchester United tonight. Barca and Shakhtar could be entertaining too, but that tie is already over for it to be taken too seriously.

[LiveByTheThree 13]

Ronaldo had 10 exceptional years, then got fat. Ronaldinho I think just got lazy and way too full of himself, then not getting selected to Brazil's squad last World Cup must've woken him up.

Brazilian stars tend to live to much in the spotlight thus seeing themselves invincible. They just tend to let their selves go after they blow up. Brazil has a huge party scene. Thats why we always see such young Brazilian squads. And what ever happened to Adriano?