NOLA trades Collison = no CP3 to Magic?

[seanjfarrell 3]

Now the Hornets will lose even more games. Paul and Ariza will probably miss games due to injury and Collison won't be there to step in for Paul. Mistake.

[magicLA 57]

How does it improve our future flexibility when it still leaves us way over the salary cap while giving away all of our trade assets?

 

Trying to move an $18M dollar contract with a $4M waive kicker for a 34 yr old player is a lot harder to move than a combination of smaller high value expiring contracts of: (2) solid defensive sharpshooting young agile wings with good upsides in Azu and Walker (1) a good hustle role player C/PF about to enter his prime and (1) $11M expiring contract with NO trade or waive kicker

 

If your the team trying to trade for VC's contract try matching his $18M in salary without giving up a franchise player or gutting your roster. Either way those types of situations are pretty rare when a team is ridding themselves of a proven quality player. In addition any team taking on VC's salary even for 1 year has to be a franchise able to take that type of $ hit especially if they are anywhere near the luxury tax. So that pretty much eliminates the majority of the teams. NY is a market that can take on that type of salary, LA maybe Dallas, but outside of that it has to be a team in desperation blowing things up or in a type of situation like NOLA was rumored to be in.

[Penny Hardaway's Ghost 260]

although I don't care for him all that much, if you are trading VC+anything to NY and aren't getting back Wilson Chandler in return, you're retarded.

[magicLA 57]

keeping carter>making a dumb trade for the sake of making a trade

 

Ok lets say the season ends and the Magic have kept Vince Carter. Here are their options:

 

(1) Keep Vince Carter another year and pay a 34/35 year old player $19 Million and since they're in luxury tax the Magic actually pay him around $38 Million. Lets say the Magic pick up the team option just so that they can move him after the trade period begins then they MUST find a taker for his contract or they will have to pay him. Which pretty much means every executive in the league who could be a potential trade partner knows you are beyond desperate to move him or your going to pay dearly to the tune of $38 Million dollars.

 

(2) Don't pick up the team option and swallow the $4 Million of guaranteed salary. Since, the Magic will still be way over the cap that means they have to find their future wing with the MLE. Here is the list of available Free Agents. Or they can try to package any number of players to fill that hole and the holes created by moving those pieces.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[magicLA 57]

although I don't care for him all that much, if you are trading VC+anything to NY and aren't getting back Wilson Chandler in return, you're retarded.

 

Your right about that. The numbers match too. But in looking at style of play, they both are similar talent, but for our offense Azu is a way better match so I was taking into consideration fit and that NY would never trade the two of them.

[magicLA 57]

If we trade Vince it must be for 1. A better player. 2. A combination of lesser players that might = vince. 3. Prospects that might one day be better than current Vince. Your trade does some fourth thing. A trade because I'd like to get Azu but never really think about what we're using to get him.

 

so based on your request of "showing you a better player" than Azu I've established the following trades: (note- these trades might not be "good" for us, we're trying to come up with something better than Carter+Gortat for Azubuike+curry+turiaf)

 

 

1. http://games.espn.go...tradeId=27vkaos Cleveland gets a chance to rebuild.

2. http://games.espn.go...tradeId=24gemu2 Detroit gets rid of long term contracts

3. http://games.espn.go...tradeId=2fk75er There's always this trade from the summer

4. http://games.espn.go...tradeId=29haq5l Does Dallas want to pay Marion for that long?

5. http://games.espn.go...tradeId=2cejzn2 Another trade i wouldn't do, but definitely brings in more talent

6. http://games.espn.go...tradeId=2dlwl8p some scoring+prospects

7. http://games.espn.go...tradeId=27hkg5n defense defense defense

8. http://games.espn.go...tradeId=238fxdh

9. http://games.espn.go...tradeId=2akt47z

10. http://games.espn.go...tradeId=2a62cwq

11. http://games.espn.go...tradeId=293canv The return of the 6-11 SF

 

 

1 - no because Magic then have a hole at back up C and still have 3 PF's plus makes us way worse defensively and we take on another terrible contract

2 - no because terrible contracts, Villanueva is a definite no, Gordon/Meer would be small but pretty hard to defend -still would have hole at the wing

3 - no, your joking right?

4 - yes but why would Dallas make this trade? there's absolutely no incentive for them to do it

5 - no, your joking again right? Amway had its panties all ruffled by Barnes

6 - no, we need a wing with size not another high usage small guard - ellis can put up points but JJ could too if he shot that much

7 - no because of Age, we need to get younger, faster, stronger to match up at the wings - Batier is no where near what he was

8 - yes, but thats never gonna happen

9 - yes, but Portland would never do

10 - no way thats terrible

 

 

 

 

[BMP 424]

Keep in mind that he didn't make that list to show good trades, he made that list to show your proposal is just as bad as some of those trades or even worse.

[Mr. Anderson 13]

Keep in mind that he didn't make that list to show good trades, he made that list to show your proposal is just as bad as some of those trades or even worse.

 

Can you please do something to get philly to trade us Iggy. I have had a man-crush on him since he kicked the Magic's arse in the first round of the '09 play-offs with the other Andre. That team played us hard even though they got 0 respect from the media.

[E27 33]

yeah, hyperlinks to actual facts suck - they just get in the way of everything...

Well I don't need a bunch of hyperlinks referring to inflated Golden State stats by Azubuike and Turiaf that mask what they really are--reserves that aren't adequate replacements for Carter's contract. What I'm trying to tell you is that Carter's contract will be worth way more at the deadline to teams trying to gain cap room. It's worth more than the deal you presented.

[magicLA 57]

Keep in mind that he didn't make that list to show good trades, he made that list to show your proposal is just as bad as some of those trades or even worse.

 

Wrong, none of those deals take the other teams needs (style of play, salary limitations, needed positions) into consideration - they have no chance of ever happening, nor do they take the Magic's future salary cap restrictions into consideration and they do not even remotely think about how the players fit into the Magic system especially if it happens during the season. Big difference. None of those trades offer a reasonable explanation of why the other team might be even the slightest bit interested in it or why and how they would work. They are essentially someone playing on the trade machine with whatever makes salaries match up.

 

As for your Iggy idea, aside from what I think are legitimate game style concerns from the Magic side, have you tried to work out the numbers and roster for Philly to see if they would have the slightest interest?

 

Philly wants to move Iguodala because they want to allow Thad Young to move into his natural SF position and because they want to allow Turner to develop. That means that if they take Carter's contract they are taking on approximately $36M because the extra $8M Carter makes puts them into the luxury tax. So the only way they can take his contract is by trading $8M of their roster along with Iggy, which for them would be one of their core young players and thus opening up a hole in their roster. The only position they have a very slight need at is Center where Speights and Spencer Hawes already play. It would be ridiculously stupid for them to pay Gortat $7M + for 4 yrs when they have those two who combined make half of what Gortat makes and have given twice as much production as Gortat.

 

Essentially the 76's want to get rid of Iggy's terrible contract (3yr/$56 Million) but not take back any salary unless it is a big upgrade at any of their positions. They are not in salary dump mode so VC is of no interest. They have really good value contracts with most of their roster filled with quality players with the exception of Iggy and Brand. VC is not an upgrade for the future for them; and Gortat certainly doesn't top anything they don't already have.

 

--btw on that earlier post you made about Iggy's compatibility with shoot first PG, I was referring to AI whom the 76's traded because amongst other reasons they also thought Iggy needed to play with a game managing type of PG and they where right as he blossomed with Andre Miller. Now their PG of the future Holiday is a big guard who plays point.

[magicLA 57]

Well I don't need a bunch of hyperlinks referring to inflated Golden State stats by Azubuike and Turiaf that mask what they really are--reserves that aren't adequate replacements for Carter's contract. What I'm trying to tell you is that Carter's contract will be worth way more at the deadline to teams trying to gain cap room. It's worth more than the deal you presented.

 

Again who is that team and what players are you talking about? Its easy and sounds like you know what your talking about by just saying there will be better options at the deadline, but if you look at other teams rosters and salary cap limitations (1) there are very few players who fit the profile of what the Magic need (2) very few teams who can absorb that size of a contract without gutting their roster. (3) If that team does have a player who makes anywhere $18M a year - almost none fit our need and none fit our style of play, and why are they moving him to begin with. So essentially you are looking for a star player on a team that is desperate to dump salary. How often does that happen, even at the deadline or in the summer? How often does Pau Gasol happen? Look at last year when bad teams where dumping players - none of them gave up players with good contracts, only players on the downslope or players with crappy contracts. Is that what you would consider better, just because you recognize the name from your fantasy league?

 

Vince Carter's contract needs to be used to find a young player about to blossom - in the same way the Magic found Hedo. If you actually look closely at the three players in my Knicks trade idea you will understand why the Knicks gave up David Lee for them and why I think they would work for us.

 

[BMP 424]

The Knicks traded Lee because they got Amar'e, no other reason. Oh yeah, and because the Knicks haven't had good management in YEARS.